Timing off? New ignition..

[AxtellZ]

Hi all!

OK, here's the story: late 260Z with 72 SU carbs. Been hibernating since November, got it out last week for Spring, also to install my new Fireball XR700 ignition.

Pulled forward after starting it, and had no brakes:cry:

So i went ahead and installed the ignition unit, and got it to run well in the garage, though i had to turn the distributor ahead as much as i could to get her running well.

Parked it and ordered a rebuilt master cylinder, called a buddy with a muffler/brake shop to install the MC since i am working too much this month:sleepy:

So last night i have a chance to drop the Z at his shop, its near freezing, but dry, so my wife drives to pick me up. Car was really hard to start, but then it idled along fine once running. I start out, to find it really bogging and coughing at low RPM's under load.

Now, if i had it over 3000rpm, she screamed along like an L6 should, and driving along flat roads without trying to accelerate, it was fine. However, driving up a slope, or to accelerate with the engine under 3K rpm, it stumbled, coughed, etc etc..

I am *guessing* my timing is still retarded, and it runs well at high rpms from the vacuum advance.. Seems logical, since when the XR700 units optical trigger is mounted in the distributor, it is located in an arbitrary position, so perhaps i need to "slide" it back in its mount to gain some room for setting the timing?

Can anyone give me an opinion as to yes/no/maybe?? Don't have a timing light, so i've no idea where it is now- just got it to idle in the garage, then on the virgin voyage, the above story. Any and all insight appreciated here- THANKZ!!:classic:

[Bambikiller240]

Hi Jeremiah:

Though this probably isn't what you want to hear at this point, I'll toss it out there.

When I installed my XR700, I had a heck of a time getting the "optical trigger unit" positioned correctly so that the engine ran with any power. Once I did, it would run great for about a month or so. Then, I'd have to adjust the position again. This would happen over, and over. I used "Red Loctite" on the screws to try to keep things from moving around, but it didn't help much. Finally, after about a year the engine developed a habit of "suddenly, completely dying, as if the key had been turned off" while driving down the road/freeway. I had some VERY scary situations develop as a result of this. The XR700 power transistor had packed up.

I replaced it with a Pertronix Ignitor, which was 500% easier to install, had no bulky "box" to find a place to mount, peforms 100% better (IMHO), and has continued to function flawlessly for two years while needing NOTHING from me in that time.

If I had it to do over again, I'd have bought a Pertronix Ignitor in the first place. The Crane XR700 that I had was not worth the bother. BTW, the Pertrnix was CHEAPER to buy than the XR700.

sign me,

VERY disappointed with my Crane XR700 purchase

[AxtellZ]

Damn Carl!

Isn't that just a kick in the nutZ!?

See, my late 260 already had Datsun electronic ignition, and i had planned to keep it stock (since it worked fine), but my wife bought me the XR700 unit as a birthday gift:tapemouth

Not to "look a gift-horse in the mouth", i happily installed the unit. Happily, that is, until you came and rained on my parade. Not what i was looking to hear, you're right!

But, as long as you've been here- does my assessment sound correct? Think if i move that optical mount i can get the timing closer, at least to get the car back home?

Anyone else been happy with the XR700??

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by AxtellZ

Isn't that just a kick in the nutZ!?

That's exactly how I felt after I took 6 months to decide which unit to buy in the first place, then had perpetual difficulties with my XR700

Originally posted by AxtellZ

......but my wife bought me the XR700 unit as a birthday gift:tapemouth

I know what you mean. I'm sure she meant well, but.........

Originally posted by AxtellZ

Not to "look a gift-horse in the mouth", i happily installed the unit. Happily, that is, until you came and rained on my parade. Not what i was looking to hear, you're right!

Sorry, for the "rain", but I'd rather you were warned of the dying out problem, than discover it yourself. It put me some really dangerous situations in the couple of weeks it took me to figure out what was causing the issue.

Originally posted by AxtellZ

But, as long as you've been here- does my assessment sound correct? Think if i move that optical mount i can get the timing closer, at least to get the car back home?

Yes, I think that you can get it better adjusted so you can get it home. The LED in the optical trigger needs to shine through the window (cut-out) of the shutter that mounts below the rotor EXACTLY when the rotor is connecting to the contacts on the cap for the individual spark plug wires. I had to re-read the directions several times to get it right.

Originally posted by AxtellZ

Anyone else been happy with the XR700??

I'm sure that many have been happy with it. I was told that the XR700 is actually a unit that was one of the first, and most popular electronic ignitions sold back in the 70's (sold then as "Allison" brand and since then sold to Crane). The design has been sold for many years.

[ZmeFly]

though i never had a petronix i have heard nothing about good from them.

i had a crane unit and it continually pissed me off on a daily basis. that is when i put a 280ZX distributor in my 240 that i had.

it as he says is a pain to get it set just right and it would always seem to go out on me.

once i had the datsunt 280ZX unit i never had a problem again.

lots of people told me that i should have went with the petronix unit but the crane was in the car to begin with.

i know you dont want to make your wifey unhappy but you would be bettter off taking that out and putting the datusn unit back in.

[2ManyZs]

Guess that means I'll be having a hard time selling the new XR-700 I have in the drawer huh?:disappoin

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by 2ManyZs

Guess that means I'll be having a hard time selling the new XR-700 I have in the drawer huh?:disappoin

I'm sure SOMEBODY will buy it, but it sure as hell won't be ME!:tapemouth

Learned my lesson the first and ONLY time!:stupid:

[AxtellZ]

I posted this to the mail-list too, here is Cary White's response:

I have the same optical unit (though I use the Hi-6 box) and the placement

of the little eye is crucial. I would suggest that you put your distributor

back to center position and fiddle with the placement of the eye until you

get it running good. If I'm not mistaken, the distributor cam turns

clockwise, so moving the little eye along it's mount in a counter clockwise

direction should advance your timing.

Hope that helps.

p.s. once you get it right, you will love this setup. you'll never have to

mess with it again.

Cary

Methinks i am going to try to get it right, but carry the old parts from the dizzy in the car with me, as "insurance":stupid:

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by AxtellZ

Methinks i am going to try to get it right, but carry the old parts from the dizzy in the car with me, as "insurance":stupid:

You can't return the XR700 after installation, even if you wanted to do so. (register the warrenty with Crane also!)

You would definitely be wise to carry those parts (and the tools to install) with you.

Remember, if the car starts suddenly dying, then will start up after a few minutes and run fine; only to repeat symptoms periodically.....it's the power transistor in the XR black box. Real tough to troubleshoot.

[AxtellZ]

As a follow-up, to keep everyone tuned to the outcome...

Read your directions, don't *assume* your helper did:stupid:

Once i got the optical trigger aligned well with the rotor and dist/cap post- all runs well, for now..

The bad newz: My helper installed his weeks before me, on his recently refreshed & installed L28 turbo block. His didn't run well at all, so he *ASSUMED* he installed the distributor/oil pump shaft off a tooth- he pulled it & moved it, got the car to run (still poorly)- Then came down and found i had read the instructions, and his problem is the same- but now he has to move that shaft back, then align his ignition eye!:stupid: :stupid: OUCH!

Moral of the story: Maybe some days it pays to read the instructions:classic:

[Inf]

Speaking of pertronix, has anyone found a place selling them at a really great price? VB has them listed for $100 IIRC, anyplace lower? I don't remember seeing it in the MSA catalog when I glanced through it the other day.

Andrew