Frame behind T/C rod pocket

[mdbrandy]

Well, I bought a 240Z without knowing exactly what I was getting into - I knew about the rust, replacing floors, etc., but Charlie Osborn tells me that one frame part that I need is not available and has to be fabbed (the part of the frame rail behind the passenger side T/C rod pocket). See the attached picture. The drivers side is OK. Anyone replaced this piece and have any advice? I've only had the car about a week, and I've gutted most of the interior so far to see what I'm up against. Hopefully it's worth it. It is a 1970 - car number 215 built in 11/69. Some more pics of the rust problems at:

http://www.csar.uiuc.edu/~mdbrandy/240Z/240ZRust.htm

Thanks for any advice. Not fixing it isn't really an option at this point.

:disappoin

[2ManyZs]

Egad.... that's got to be one of the first I have seen that rusted out in that area in a while, usually it is above that where the rust takes its toll..

I'd suggest you find a shop that specializes in restoring old cars that has someone that is good at metal fabrication. To someone with the tools and skills to fabricate, this shouldn't be a hard job at all. To those of us who have a hard time forming metal, it would be a difficult job to do it right. Not only that, but that is one of the few places where I believe the 18 gauge metal was used.

It's not impossible, but you'll need to shop around and take a look at the metal fabrication the shop does. Hmm, to someone that builds Nascar stock cars for a living, this would be a piece of cake, to us, it's a bit scary....

It is odd that this part of the frame is one of the only parts of the frame work that is not available, but then, this is usually not on of the areas that is rusted away like this one...

Good find, if you can find a shop that can do a good job.:nervous:

[superkaribou]

It is domage, it suffered much.... the corosion!!!! :dead:

[mdbrandy]

I spent a couple more hours under it tonight, and that darned piece is really the only part of the frame that is bad. Floor pans aren't good, and the frames under both floor pans have been previously replaced, but they are still in good shape. The battery tray area is a little worse than I thought, but not too bad. There is also some rust-through of the passenger wheel well just over the passenger side connection of the front sway bar. The box frame there at the sway bar looks fine, though - just the wheel well piece. I've been poking and proding all I can at that area, and can't go through the frame itself.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I'll start looking for shops next week. I work for the University here in town (University of Illinois) - maybe I can find someone in the Mechanical engineering fab lab that would take on the project of making the piece :classic:

BTW, when the frame rails under the floor pans were previously replaced, the replacements do not have the drain holes that I seen in Charlie's frame rails. Did the originals have drain holes, and do I need to be worried about what the insides of the rails look like? I've banged on them a bit, and they don't deform, and they don't even really have much surface rust...

[superkaribou]

good luck for the restoration in any case, one will need courage of it;)

[2ManyZs]

The original underfloor frame rails had drain holes, but, they were usually not large enough and got clogged with debris and caused the water to stay in the rails and rust out.:disappoin

The largest amount of water probably got into the frame rails in the first place through the section that is rusted out on yours as it has some areas that are open in the corners.

The only other ideas that I can come up with, would be to find another car that is only good for parts, and you could possibly remove the frame rail behind the T/C pocket, as 95% of the worts cars will have this piece in decent or useable condition.

If you are going to tackle restoring this car, I would suggest replacing the frame rails inside the engine compartment as well, they are readily available, and these rails usually rust away from the inside. Since you are going to be doing a major frame resto, you might as well replace them, and you'll never have to worry about them again.

The only other area of the car that has me kinda nervous is around the battery tray/firewall junction. This area will need to be done by a fabricator as well, as there are no patch panels available.

I'd look for shops that are into the antique car restoration business, as they usually have to fabricate a lot of body parts for the cars they are working on as panels aren't available. You could possibly end up spending 2-3K just on this job alone, due to all the labor involved.:disappoin But, this car is going to appreciate much faster than say a 72 or 73 due to the simple fact it has a 69 build date, so the expense should be justified IMO.

[24OZ]

You are lucky enough to own a very early production 240Z. If you can afford it, please get it repaired professionally. The car will be worth more and hold its value if repaired right.

A few Z enthusiasts would sell their granny's for such a low vin number..

Good luck and it all sounds straight forward to a good shop with the right tools and the skill.

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by 24OZ

Good luck and it all sounds straight forward to a good shop with the right tools and the skill.

.........and a big pile of your money.

[mdbrandy]

Since I don't weld (yet), I don't think I'd even attempt to repair a frame. Maybe sheet metal, but not something as important as the frame. Thus, the search for a restoration professional in the area begins...

The battery tray area will actually probably not be too hard. Most of the difficult curved areas were replaced 12 years ago, and they look solid still. The two rusted areas right now are in areas that are on fairly flat panels, so fabrication shouldn't be too hard. It looks like the work that was done previously was pretty good, and very little of it has rusted again. The rust now is in areas that are original sheet metal that wasn't replaced before.

I don't know about replacing the whole front frame. I'd hate to replace things that are in reasonable shape. It'll be a while still before I ascertain if they are actually in reasonable shape. I'll probably be pulling the engine, and that'll let me get a much closer look. I'll keep your suggestion in mind.

I didn't pay premium $$ for the car (although I don't think he gave it away either), so I can afford to put some $$ into it too. Since everything mechanical/body, etc. except the welding work (and a final paint job), I can do myself, I should be able to make a nice car out of it without mortaging the house. I'm not looking for a show car, but I want to put it back into good condition throughout. Other than the transmission, and no vinyl in the interior, it is pretty much original. And since I do like working on these machines (it's my 4th Z, although I haven't worked on one for 12 years or so), at least the voyage ought to be fun

[Bambikiller240]

Hi Mark:

Yeah, I'm sure that you'll have fun re-doing the car. I'm on my fourth 240Z owned now also. There was about 13-14 years between the selling of my 3rd Z, the acquiring of the one that I have now. It has been a joy for me to get back to these cars that I enjoy working on and driving so much.

Enjoy the journey!

[mdbrandy]

Yup, it feels good to be workin' on a Z again. My first car was a '71 240. It had an automatic that I switched for a 4 speed from a junk yard, redid the struts, and did a bunch of "bondo body work" (I didn't know better then). I sold it in 1981 and bought a '75 280Z that I had until 1989 when I got out of grad school. I lowered the 280, did heavy sway bars, poly bushings, etc. I only sold it 'cause I had a new family, and the choice was the station wagon or the Z. Unfortunately, the station wagon won.

My third is a '78 280Z that I bought 8 years ago, and let it sit in my garage. It spent one year outside two years ago, and that killed it. Frame filled with water I think, and the drivers side is gone. Doesn't run too well either now. I guess that's not unexpected after 8 years of only being started every couple years.

I got the bug a few months ago to start working on the 280, and found that it wasn't worth it for a car that is just a run-of-the-mill Z. I started looking around, and found the #215 here in town, sitting outside, rusting away with a forsale sign in the window. I wasn't going to buy it, but he dropped the price significantly, and I couldn't resist, as much as many people tell you not to buy a rust-Z. I guess I'll see if it was a good idea :nervous:

I'm sure you'll see me on the forums more and more over the next year. Hopefully I can join all you Z-experts and get back to driving my Z.