Lost Rear Bearing Shim Washers

[Matthew Abate]

I just got my rear hubs back from the shop and the guy threw out all my old bears "because they were shot." I got the distance bearings, usually referred to as spacers here, back but he only saved one of the four copper shim washers.

They are part number 43211-N3400 and go between the bearings and either end of the distance bearing.

Any chance someone has a line on these? I need three. Looks like this:

 

[zKars]

These are not shims. If they were in your old axles between the spacer and cap, it was done wrong and you now know the reason your bearings failed.

They are noice reduction devices. Really. They stopped being used on the 280's. As long as you have the right spacer that came from the axles, you are good to go. "Most" spacers are stamped "B". The FSM shows you the assembly and length specs of each of the spacers (A, B and C).

Edited November 11, 2017 by zKars

[Patcon]

Mic them and put some dimensions out there so we can maybe help cross reference them...

[Zed Head]

I was going to say what zKars said.  Nissan has a TSB about their discontinuation.  It's shown in the back of Humble's Restore book.

Best to mic the hub and the spacers anyway to be sure they aren't worn or haven't been switched in the past.  Kind of like "blueprinting" your hubs.

[Matthew Abate]

Hmmm. Okay. I'll mic the distance bearing and the copper service file washer later (loaned my micrometer to my father in law).

However, I did find another copper washer. It was between the seal and the bearing, which is weird, because as far as I can tell these hubs have never been disassembled before now. The nuts were still peened. So one was where kCars mentioned above and one was where the exploded diagram of the hub says it goes between the bearing and the distance bearing.

Or am I confusing parts? I'm looking at #14 in the diagram:

[Zed Head]

Not sure what washers are shown in that diagram.  Here's the TSB's summarized from Humble's book, and the 1972 diagram showing no washers at the distance piece, but a thin washer at the bearing.  Between the companion flange and the inner bearing race.  The 1970 diagram doesn't show any washers, last picture.

[Captain Obvious]

Confusing and contradictory. The parts breakdown clearly shows two washers P/N 43211-N3400 used on each side of the distance piece, but I think it's a documentation error.

On page RA-9 of the 73 FSM, they make a vague reference to the "bearing washer" in step 7 when they say to "Remove the distance piece, companion flange, and bearing washer." At that stage of disassembly, they have already removed the large staked (caulked) retaining nut and pulled the stub axle out of the housing, so it's clearly not talking about the hardened washer under the staked over retaining nut. That's a different washer.

And there's no way you need two of those things on each side... Makes no sense at all.

Also note that in later versions of the documentation, they stopped referring to that bearing washer, thereby supporting the belief that it was dropped from later cars.

I think the documentation is wrong and there was only one per side, and the correct location is not what is shown in the parts breakdown pic. I think it should be between the inner bearing and the companion flange. I also think the "from 7308" usage dating should be a "to 7308" (not from, but to) if that washer was used up to sometime at the end of the 240 cars. 

The distance piece was selected at the factory based on the width of the counterbored faces that support the outer bearing races. Seems they couldn't quite control the machining tolerance well enough there, so they resorted to characterizing the assembly using different length supports between the inner races so there wouldn't be too much side load on the bearings. I think a washer in there would completely defeat the distance piece selection and end up with way too much side load on the bearings.

Anyway, I think there should only be two of them per car. And (like others) I didn't have any of those on my 280.

[beermanpete]

My car, a '73 240Z, did not have any copper washers in-between the bearings and the distance collar (piece?). How would a soft part in that location help? It seems like a mistake to me because it would crush when tightening the lock nut and/or over time.

[Zed Head]

Here's a snap-shot of the actual TSB from the compiled volume that the "Canadian formerly known as Blue" uploaded.  It's in the Manuals section but should be in Service Bulletins. 

You'd have to know what type of noise they were trying to reduce, to know why they chose a copper washer to serve the purpose.  They say metallic.  Could be a clank, or a clunk, or a high frequency noise.  I'm going to guess it was clank-related.

 

 

[Matthew Abate]

Okay, so it looks like I can reuse the two I have provided they aren't worn too much, or I can leave them out.

And one last thing: I found one between the seal and the bearing, which sounds like the right place. The other one was stuck to the end of the distance bearing with grease, which sounds like the wrong place. Notice they are using two different part numbers (4100 vs 3400).

Glad I'm overhauling all this now that I'm finding discrepancies.

[Captain Obvious]

Well the confusion (for me anyway) just keeps getting deeper... Part number 43211-N3400 shows up on the parts breakdown pic needing four per car (one on each end of the distance piece).

But part number 43211-E4100 (the one called out for on that TSB) shows up used on the R180 differential, two per car. I didn't see 43211-E4100 called out for in a corner application other than on that TSB, just inside the R180.

Just keeps getting weirder and more confusing.

Matthew, Just to be sure there isn't something catastrophic about to happen... Before you press the wheel bearings back together, you should measure the length of the distance pieces and also measure the distance between the bearing seating counterbore surfaces inside the rear strut housings. Those measurements will tell you if there should be any washers needed on the ends of the distance pieces.

Based on the lack of clear documentation, I would check those dimensions just to be sure. Something is really fishy....

[Zed Head]

One of the first things I heard when I got on these forums was that there are many mistakes in the documentation.  Translation errors and such.  

The TSB and FSM descriptions of the processes seem to make it pretty clear though, don't they, that the washer in question goes outside of the distance piece area?  The only questionable thing is the image with the part numbers.  There are no words describing washers or shims between the bearing races.  Just that one drawing.  FSM's 1970-1978 all support no washers between the races.  And describe measuring and verifying.

Is that drawing from the microfiche CD, or is it from some other non-Nissan source?