Transmission internals question

[Dave WM]

think would have to remove the entire sychro assembly, It pretty difficult to assemble the springs and inserts with it on the table, trying to do it with the hub still attached to the output shaft could be a bit too much.

So removing the hub... the way I did it was to pull the speedo gear and output shaft rear bearing. just some snap ring pliers and a bearing puller from harbor freight. Next up is a monster box wrench on the left hand thread main nut, clock wise to loosen on this one, with that out of the way, you get to a thrust washer then 5th gear comes off easy along with the baulk ring. Then the shift fork (drive out the roll pin) and coupler should be able to come off the back of the hub, don't loose the insert springs as the inserts will want to jump out as soon as the coupler sleeve clears them.

I cant remember if the counter shaft 5th gear has to come off, prob does to clear the hub.

now comes the fun part, the hub and inner race of needle bearing for 5th, IF you can fabricate a puller that can reach the end of the shaft and get it behind the hub then you are good to go. On mine I use the bearing puller from harbor freight but in order to use this I had to get the idler shaft and gear out of the way, this means removing the bearing plate with its 6 torx screws that trap the idler shaft.

once that is out of the way the bearing puller and lots of extentions later I got the hub off. its some where in my rebuild video, part 2 or 3 I think. The hub and the inner race are a tight fit, maybe just the inner race (5th) but regardless need the puller to get it off. If you have a really long 2 jaw puller you maybe able to skip the removal of the bearing plate and idler shaft.

with the hub off you can rebuild the sychro as a unit. I used a series of washers and the main nut to press it all back on.

hard to explain in a step by step fashion, its not hard but it is tedious and you must use the correct tools (no cave man stuff here) the 3" 4" bearing puller from harbor freight was enough for me, a long gear puller would have saved me some step, but I was tearing it down all the way so no need to save steps.

you have to not lose some little steel ball and a steel peg (speedo gear and 5th thrust washer). If it was mine I would do it. Yes it prob works but I bet it gets hung up now and then as evidenced by those deep gouges in the pad on the shift inserts.

if you have done it before, 1 hour, if 1st time more like 3 hours as you struggle to figure which tool to use.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Dave WM

[Dave WM]

 

[Dave WM]

 

[Dave WM]

forgot looks like all the shift forks would need to come out, which gets you into the detents springs and balls. best to watch all mine (I skipped the 1st one) or the village land guy to get an idea of what you are going to need to do. Not an easy fix due to how much have to come off, tedious.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Dave WM

[EuroDat]

I had some time this afternoon, so quickly removed the rear extension housing and took a couple of shots. The inserts are fitted like in the diagram SMT986 and the ctross sectional view in SMT530.

I will try to find some time during the week to add a sketch to the pdf's

 

[Dave WM]

That pretty much clarifies the correct way to install, both EuroDat and I came up with the same conclusion on the correct install. So now its going to be up to Redfogo to decide (as ZH already mentioned) if he wants to fix his or just run with it the way its been installed before (and presumably working albeit prob with some occasional issues with getting out of reverse).

I am pretty sure reversing the inserts will require the level of effort I  previously described, but cant say that for sure since I never attempted a limited tear down just for that purpose.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Dave WM

[Mark Maras]

IMO, I'd put it right. "Wayback Machine" 1975. My room mate had a beautiful red 73 240. He had refreshed the trans (4 speed) and for some reason it was baulky going in and out of reverse. No big deal, he thought. A few months later he's headed to the bank after work. Drops his paycheck between the seat and console. As he's groping for it he doesn't notice the train track ahead and the train coming. When he sees it he slams on the brakes and comes to a stop halfway on the tracks. Tries to throw the car in reverse. It baulks but finally goes in. Starts backing up but the train catches the Z on the side sugar scoop just forward of the radiator. It was ugly. Room mate came out OK physically. The only thing that wasn't twisted and warped on the poor Z was the rear hatch and the battery access panel. 

 

[Dave WM]

Dang, that is one scary situation to be in as in nightmare scenario , never a win for the car in a car vs train.

[redfogo]

Well I am glad we finally have our answer! I am contemplating taking it apart I really don't want to though lol. I do have a press and bearing puller but lacking the rest of the tools needed to get this all apart. When every thing is assembled it really shift and feels fine so i'm not 100% sold on fixing it since its only reverse thats really effected and seems to shift great regardless, but I can see the need to fix it... Ohhh what joy

[Dave WM]

Its really not that hard to take apart, do like I did and watch that village land video a few dozen times. You only have to take the back part off, so you can stop watching when he gets that far.

just don't let those springs jump out on you when you pull the sleeve off. The only misleading thing on that video is the ease he has of pulling the hub, that inner race of the 5th gear needle bearing is pressed on pretty hard. He shows it just coming off, yea right. Also don't loose the various balls used in the fork detents as well as the speedo worm gear and the 5th gear thrust washer.

[redfogo]

Well I figure If I am going to take it apart i mine as well rebuild it all right? I may just have to hold off on my 5 speed swap for a bit tell I have more time to get rebuild started.

[Dave WM]

12 hours ago, redfogo said:

Well I figure If I am going to take it apart i mine as well rebuild it all right? I may just have to hold off on my 5 speed swap for a bit tell I have more time to get rebuild started.

depends, if the bearings look ok (no broken cages or obvious damage), you may just want to switch out the counter shaft bearings and the tail shaft bearing, easy to do with minimal breakdown. I the cages look good and the baulk rings seem to be grabbing and have the in spec gaps. I did not even use the rebuild baulk rings and the adapter plate bearing were nearly as good as the new ones. there is a lot you can do without pulling the shafts out.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Dave WM