Bringing a 1977 Z back life

[siteunseen]

2 hours ago, Av8ferg said:

I was called in to work for an overnight trip but here’s what I got done before I left.  

- new water pump and thermostat installed.

-  with everything so easily accessible up front and because what I found in the pump I decided to pull the radiator.  I took it to a shop in town and had it tested.  I watched as he tossed it in a tank with air pressure on it and it leaked like a sieve.  That cost me $35.  So I ordered and new aluminum 2 core radiator from Champion, exact one they sell at MSA but mine was on sale for $159.  

- with the AFM pulled free from the intake but still connected electrically, I sprayed carb cleaner into then intake after opening then butterfly valve with the throttle.  I then turned the car over.  It made a big “pop” sound and then I saw a flame shoot out the intake.  I don’t think I’ll do that again. 

When I get back from my work trip here are the next tasks on my list.  

- install the extra set of injectors that I’ve tested and cleaned.  

- pull the fuel pump, clean that smalll screen on the intake side and then put 12v to it and see if it runs I’m also going to test the one I have in a parts bin I bought.  If both of the pumps are bad, I’ll pull one apart and see if something is repairable or rusted.  My last resort after is buy a new pump.  They are expensive.  

Question.....I can buy a OEM style which are in the $300 ball park range or get a different looking non-OEM from a box auto store for $99?   Here are the difference in the looks of those pumps.

finally I’m going to start testing the ECU connections as mentioned, the coil and the Distrutor. Good ide to check where the rotor is pointing of the #1 fire stroke. .  I’m not exactly sure what Zed Head was saying but it sounds like I need to check the gap in my distributor??? Can you clarify that task?  

Thank again guys.....you are all awesome and I’m very appreciative.  When I’m done and any of you any of the extra part I have let me know.  I’m happy to make parts donations,  

Blue's tech tips show how to clean/rebuild the OE Bosch,  the $300 one.  Maybe your's can be saved?  I bought one of the last ones advance auto had about 6 years ago, $256.

His tech tips also show the air gap for the distributors stator.   I'm on my phone now but tonight or in the morning I can post that info from my laptop.

Sounds like your getting close!  Congratulations. 

I think the high dollar pumps are made by Borg Warner now???

A lot of folks run the cheaper pumps without any issue except mounting.  I think you have to use rubber to compensate the difference in size for the mounting.  They're a little louder too from what I've read but who cares, you'll have a header and 2.5" exhaust soon.

Edited January 11, 2018 by siteunseen

[Zed Head]

Distributor maintenance is described in the Engine Electrical chapter of the FSM.

Another possible reason for the back/front fire is a stuck valve.  Not uncommon in engines that have sat for a long time.  You might remove the valve cover and check things out.

Ford F150s from the 90's used a pump that will work.  BMW's also.  If you want a cheap pump.  Many cars have fine fuel systems and end up in the wrecking yard for crash reasons.

[Patcon]

2 hours ago, Zed Head said:

Another possible reason for the back/front fire is a stuck valve

True...

[siteunseen]

Here's what I went by to set the gaps on the stator.  Loosen those phillips head screws to adjust with a feeler gauge, try and get them all equal.

The fuel pump rebuild was not what I thought but you may see/read something that'll help.  I bought a new one just because.  Didn't need it but I'd rather have new than get stuck on the side of the road.  I can pressure test it and maybe consider selling it?  I'd have to dig it out of my storage building and figure out a price, no guarantees on the reliability though, it was on the car when I bought it.  Bosch ones I think go to 50 psi without a fuel pressure regulator.  If it goes that high i think it would be okay if your interested, I like new stuff myself.  I am a worrier not a warrior. 

http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/fuelpump/index.html

[Av8ferg]

Okay, i just got back from my trip and had about 2 hrs with the car before worked called me back.  

I tested the extra OEM fuel pump that was in one of the 3 boxes of car parts from a 1978 280z (paid $300 for all those parts).  I didn't know if the lump was good,  but after reading that when someone converts to carbs they need to get a different pump, i hoping the one he took out was good. So I plugged it into my battery with some extra speaker wires I had and she ran like a top.  Good news as that saved me some $$.  I will install that pump when I get back from work on Tuesday,  

Thanks for the info on checking the gaps on the stator.  I will do that also.  I think I will also pull off the fuel rail and clean that as it seems to be the easiest way to get those injectors swapped out.  

So I have 4 tasks on my plate.

1. Intall the new OEM fuel pump

2. Pull fuel rail and injectors.  Clean the rail and change the injectors as well as inspect the wires.

3. Intall the new Champion dual core radiator and hoses.  Fill with coolant.

4. Check the stator gaps and rotor alignment. 

From there its a hope and a prayer that it starts.  I’ll report back what happens.  It will be the middle of next week before I can finish ll that work, becasue of my job and family commitments.  BTW, it freezing in my garage.  Uggg!!

 

 

[Zed Head]

Site's pictures are for the ZX distributor.  Same idea for the single point reluctor though,which you have.  You'll see the difference when you remove the distributor cap.  You really do need to check the position of the rotor.  It's easy and not uncommon for them to be a tooth off.  If it's a tooth or two off then your plug wires might need to be off also.  Might explain your intake flames.  The fact that you got a flame means that you got a spark though so you know that things aren't terrible with your ignition system.

[siteunseen]

Oops.  You're right Zed, I have ZX distributors in my 240 & 280. 280 is shot though and I'm about yo put the old one back in.

Av8ferg there's a good write up from RossiZ where he put 240 carbs on his '78.  More reliable and cheaper than replacing all the efi components.  I can't find it now but I'll post it when I'm on my laptop, I have it bookmarked.  It's worth reading.

[Av8ferg]

Well, I think I’ve committed to going EFI right now. I think I’m almost to a point that she might start soon. Going carbs now would delay her debut to the streets of the 21st century. The Cali plates on the car has a registration sticker of 1998.


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[Av8ferg]

So, I’m hoping to make some progress on the Z today.  It’s 16 degrees outside and probably 20 in my garage so not sure how much will actually happen.  

I got the AFM hoses yesterday so hope to get them in the car.  Before I left the area on Friday I pulled one injector #4 (had to cut the hose to get it past the fuel rail.) .  I wanted to get an idea of status of the injectors.  I tested it and pushed carb cleaner through it while applying a small voltage to it and it seems to work fine.  So I wanted to pull the entire fuel rail and replace all the injectors and hoses with the extra ones I have and clean the rail up.  Want to make sure nothing is gummed up in there. I’m worried about getting too deep and running into issues getting all this back together.  Do I need to order any (consumables). That’s what we called them in the military (things that must be replaced, like gaskets, washers and seals).  If so I want to order them ASAP so I’m not waiting around to put this thing back on.  Is this a big task, or should I wait until the new fuel pul and on and see if it works without doing all this?

Second question:  I’ve read in the forum that I need to prime my fuel pump since all the lines are empty and I’m replacing the pump.  I couldn’t find a procedure for this anywhere. How do you prime the pump after I get the replacement fuel pump in. I have about 1 gallon of fresh fuel in the tank.  I also bought a fuel pressure gauge to install but need to pick up the T fitting today to get it installed.  Logic tells me to get the fuel rail off, clean it, replace the injectors, put the pressure gauge in before I prime the system, that way I’ve eliminated possible problems areas to diagnose.  

You mentioned a stuck valve the other day.  That made me think.  The guy I bought the car from had it for about 6 years,  he never committed to the task of getting it back on the road but told me it had a cylinder with 0 compression and thought it was a stuck valve.  I may have mentioned this in my intro but when I did the compression check all cylinder were ~175 psi except cylinder 4 which was 145 psi.  Is this something I need to worry about and if it’s a stuck valve how will I know.  Of note, when I picked parts of that salvage yard last week that is an hour from my house the car had a complete engine,  It has an N42 Head and they told me I could have the head for $100 or the entire engine tranny for $300.  I don’t have room for the whole engine and tranny.  Do I guys think it would be a good idea to grab that head and rebuild it,  I have an N47 Head on my car now.  They said once scrap metal get to $550 a ton that 1975 Z will be crushed for scrap metal,  scrap metal was at $440 now.  What do you guys think? 

[siteunseen]

You could replace the rubber seals around the injectors while you have them out.

I'd get that N42 head and the N42 intake and delete all the EGR stuff.  I have a funky N47 intake with the beginning of the EGR era, it has the mount but no EGR tunnel underneath connecting to the runners to the intake ports.  I put a block off plate on there just to keep crap from getting down in the hole.

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by siteunseen

[Av8ferg]

That engine looks clean.  Mine....not so much. Good advice,  I’ll  call that yard have them pull it.  Is it compatible with everything other than the intake I have.  I know they changed pistons thoughout  the 280z Years.  

Off to the garage...will report my progress.  

[S30Driver]

As Cliff mentioned, if you pull the injectors, replace the seals to insure the is no vacuum leak issue.   You can likely get the at a local parts store.   Be careful removing the 2 philllips screws for each injector,  you can ruin the heads easily.  Consider replacing them with ss allen head cap screws which is a nice upgrade.

To pressurize the fuel system,  temporarily disconnect the small spade connected wire on the starter solenoid,  then turn the ignition key to the start position.    You should hear the fuel pump run.

Stay warm ....