What is this??

[Erick]

Hey guys so I recently replaced my fuel pump (Has a max psi of 95), my car started to run perfectly fine for the first time. Fast forward 2 months...I start it up and it died as if it didn't have gas. So I decided to change the FPR since it was hissing. Then my car started up again but it dies if I don't apply gas. So I looked back at my pump and I see this filter looking thing on top of the pump(I didn't see it the first time, this is my first project car I'm learning). I know it's connected to the fuel system so I'm wonder is this a fuel filter? Like an additional one? Also for the FPR (Fuel Pressure regulator) what's a good psi to have it before i try to start I know it goes between 30 and 40 before even trying to crank. Thanks guys.

[Chickenman]

Fuel pressure damper. Leave it in place.  Helps absorb " Water Hammer " from the injectors when they open and close. Like in an old hose when you shut a water tap off too quick and the pipes go Bang. Same principle.

[Chickenman]

As far as Fuel pressure. Do you still have stock injectors and EFI system?

 

[Erick]

2 minutes ago, Chickenman said:

As far as Fuel pressure. Do you still have stock injectors and EFI system?

 

Yes everything is bone stock except the FPR and Fuel Pump, I'm thinking my pump is bad because, I turned my car on last week and I had to step on the gas to barely get it to start, and if I stop giving it gas it will die and sound like it has no gas but it's full tank. also I bought a Fram G3 Fuel Filter, some people say it's good to add it, is it true? And if so I'm guessing I install in between pump and damper? And thank you for the help much appreciated I'm trying to get this car to one car meet and tear it down for restoration.

[Dave WM]

between the tank and the pump.

[Chickenman]

Do not add the Fram G3 fuel filter between the Tank and Fuel pump. Worst danged piece of advice on the Internet. Atlantic Z should take that article down.

The Fram G3 is a fine filter for use on the pressure side of Fuel pumps and only for carburetors. It filters medium is between 15 to 20 Microns. A pre-filter for an EFI pump has to be fairly coarse. 100 Microns in size is good, and it has to be non-restrictive. 

The Fram G3 or similar filters will restrict a Fuel pump inlet and can damage the pump through " Supercavitation: " I will attach a file from Aeromotive explaining EFI Pre-Filters.

Stock Nissan pump is a Roller vane style. They are relatively insensitive to small debris. Pros: They will chew and spit out must debris like a mini Garburator. Cons: They are nosy and not very efficient.

Gerotor pumps like a Walpro or Bosch 044 are a lot more efficient and pump more pressure and Volume. They will tolerate less Debris, so a pre-filter before the pump is advised.

Ceramic Turbine pumps are used on many OEM cars. They are very quiet, will push very high pressures and adequate volume for stock cars. But they will not tolerate ANY debris and a Pre-filter is necessary. Most are in Tank pumps and the Nylon sock on the end is used as a Pre-Filter this is usually 80 to 120 Micros in filtering size.

 

 Fuel pressure. If you have an adjustable FPR, the stock FP is 37.5 PSI at idle on 280Z and ZX. That is with engine idling and Vacuum reference hose removed from FPR while setting pressure. Reattach vacuum hose and pressure should drop about 8 - 9 PSI on your Gauge.

I see Dave WM is replying as I'm  typing.... 

TB_101_InletFilter02.pdf

 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Chickenman

[Erick]

35 minutes ago, Chickenman said:

Do not add the Fram G3 fuel filter between the Tank and Fuel pump. Worst danged piece of advice on the Internet. Atlantic Z should take that article down.

The Fram G3 is a fine filter for use on the pressure side of Fuel pumps and only for carburetors. It filters medium is between 15 to 20 Microns. A pre-filter for an EFI pump has to be fairly coarse. 100 Microns in size is good, and it has to be non-restrictive. 

The Fram G3 or similar filters will restrict a Fuel pump inlet and can damage the pump through " Supercavitation: " I will attach a file from Aeromotive explaining EFI Pre-Filters.

Stock Nissan pump is a Roller vane style. They are relatively insensitive to small debris. Pros: They will chew and spit out must debris like a mini Garburator. Cons: They are nosy and not very efficient.

Gerotor pumps like a Walpro or Bosch 044 are a lot more efficient and pump more pressure and Volume. They will tolerate less Debris, so a pre-filter before the pump is advised.

Ceramic Turbine pumps are used on many OEM cars. They are very quiet, will push very high pressures and adequate volume for stock cars. But they will not tolerate ANY debris and a Pre-filter is necessary. Most are in Tank pumps and the Nylon sock on the end is used as a Pre-Filter this is usually 80 to 120 Micros in filtering size.

 

 Fuel pressure. If you have an adjustable FPR, the stock FP is 37.5 PSI at idle on 280Z and ZX. That is with engine idling and Vacuum reference hose removed from FPR while setting pressure. Reattach vacuum hose and pressure should drop about 8 - 9 PSI on your Gauge.

I see Dave WM is replying as I'm  typing.... 

TB_101_InletFilter02.pdf

 

 

Ok thank you so it's a good thing I didn't bother adding the Filter ? I did see Alantic Z post and I saw it sketchy where I'm like "it's hanging isn't that a tad dangerous ?" thank you

[Chickenman]

Yes, I Remote Tune a fair number of L28 Turbo cars. I've had about 6 customers have issue with the Fram G3 restricting flow. Don't feel bad . I fell for that article as well. I have a Fram G3 on my 280Z NA motor. And the Fuel pump gets noisy as hell when fuel gets low or the ambient temps get hot. I'll be switching to a proper EFI SS 100 Micron filter in the future. Probably an Aeromotive. Holley also makes a nice one as well. The Holley one is available with 3/8" NPT, so you can run hose nipples or AN fittings as you wish. 

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hly-162-553/overview/?retaillocation=int

 

 

[Chickenman]

One of my customers E-Mailed me after I told him to remove the Fram G3 " pre-filter ". The cellulose filter media had completely collapsed and wa plugging the outlet Nipple. Car suddenly went Lean and Walpro Fuel pump got REALLY noisy. He installed a 100 Micron Aeromotive pre- filter and problem was solved. Fuel pressure came back and FP was quiet.  

[gwri8]

I have a G3 on my car and it does not show any of those symptoms.  I check it occasionally just to make sure there aren't any chunks there since I relined the tank.  Like any other filter,  I've changed it a couple of times.  Maybe your client thought it was a forever filter?  I'll probably pull mine off at some point now that I'm sure the lining didn't come loose.  I think the original suggestion of running that filter is sound though. It's an inexpensive way to eliminate or confirm any blockage from the tank. Confirm that the tank is clean then just take it off.  

[siteunseen]

Same story for me too GWRI8.  I have the G3 on my 280 and a G2 on the 240, both to catch badly applied Red-Kote tank liner.  Ends up I did better than I thought I would and there's been know Red-Kote over the past few years.  Mine turn an orangish color after a year or two so I replace them, @$2.99 each I buy 2 at a time.  Put one in the fuel flow and the other in a tool bin in case I break down.  

I'll give the larger micron filters a look Chickenman, that makes sense to me now that I'm not worried about the Red-Kote.  I've never heard (until know) anyone complain but I'm sure if you left one on forever it would self destruct.  They are cheaply made or Walmart wouldn't sale them. 

With these, the cast aluminum starts to disintegrate after a few years.  Same as any filter, they are meant to be swapped out periodically.  I've been telling my Mom that for 30 years.  She won't change the furnace filter until it gets cold inside her house, then they look like thin square cats with all the fur on them.

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by siteunseen

[Chickenman]

14 hours ago, gwri8 said:

I have a G3 on my car and it does not show any of those symptoms.  I check it occasionally just to make sure there aren't any chunks there since I relined the tank.  Like any other filter,  I've changed it a couple of times.  Maybe your client thought it was a forever filter?  I'll probably pull mine off at some point now that I'm sure the lining didn't come loose.  I think the original suggestion of running that filter is sound though. It's an inexpensive way to eliminate or confirm any blockage from the tank. Confirm that the tank is clean then just take it off.  

As a temporary measure after a Tank clean it may work. But the Atlantic Z article doesn't say that. You should definitely run a Pre-Filter all the Time. But it should be a filter that suits the Task.  In tank filters come with a Filter sock. As mentioned those work well. They are a coarse filter and relatively non-restrictive. Being 80 to 120 Microns in size.

Just because you aren't having a problem now, doesn't mean you won't down the Road. On a mildly driven car with a relatively stock fuel pump you may get away with it. But on a Turbo car with a high volume fuel pump it WILL cause a problem. Fuel Filter on clients car was only about 6 months old and it was clean. The Walbro 255 pump volume and suction and simply collapsed the filter Media. 

That's alo why I included the Tech article from Aeromotive. You need a non-restrictive coarse filter before the pump to catch the big trash. But the Fram G3 style is the wrong choice for a pre-filter.... especially on a Vehicle with a high flow fuel system.   It is designed as a pressure filter, not a suction filter. It is designed for low fuel pressures and volumes on carburetors, . It is not a high volume fuel filter. The G3 is anywhere from 15 to 20 Microns depending on whose specs you read . And it wasn't easy finding those specs I can tell you. I finally managed to finally find them in an Industrial Trades catalog . Can't remember if I saved the PDF though. 

As I mentioned. I also have a Fran G3 on my NA 280Z. It's got a pretty potent engine. I've always noticed that the EFI Fuel pump ( Airtex Ceramic Turbine ) gets noticeably noisier on a low fuel tank and especially at high ambient temps. The high ambient temps and louder F/Pump are the hidden clue. Higher fuel temps promote more fuel cavitation at the pump. A Ceramic Turbine pump should be very quiet.  My fuel pump is nothing special. But on a Big Turbo EFI car you have to look at the Big picture. Every component is important. 

Think of sucking a thick Milkshake through a thin straw. Yes you will finish your Milkshake. But not very easily and your Cheeks may ache a bit. Same thing with your F/Pump. By using a restrictive filter ahead of the pump you are making it work harder than it should. Eventually that will wear the pump out faster.... and could cause other issues.  

 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Chickenman