Field-Find 3 Datsun 240Zs

[Patcon]

13 minutes ago, EVILC said:

The two 70 cars still have matching engines? Steering wheels, radios, center consoles? 

These are just way too far gone for resto, they need every panel. 

Maybe, but would one of these be worth the effort at $100k value?

In 10 years that's what these early cars will probably bring. Now admittedly these will take a lot of work, but I have seen people redo worse

It just takes time and money

[EVILC]

1 hour ago, Patcon said:

Maybe, but would one of these be worth the effort at $100k value?

In 10 years that's what these early cars will probably bring. Now admittedly these will take a lot of work, but I have seen people redo worse

It just takes time and money

$100k? 

I don't see it. It would take $50-$75k to restore any of those cars to a $45k car. Are they valuable as part cars, yes if some of the early items are there and items like matching key set. Tracking parts down today will cost much more than 10 years ago due to the higher value on Z cars. But that higher value isn't bringing rusty vin tags to the price of running cars. If the shells were not as rough and way more complete,  I would say they were worth  $5k each imho.

What would you ask for the pair of new fenders? I am in NJ also. 

[Gav240z]

1 hour ago, EVILC said:

$100k? 

I don't see it.

That's because you haven't been watching their values go up over the last 15 or so years... They will get there and many variants of the S30Z series are there already.. Good early S30Z's have already got there...the cost of restoration will only go up over time. Restore now, hold for 20 years and sell in future at a premium, not unlike the stock market or real estate, what matters is time in market.

[EVILC]

7 minutes ago, Gav240z said:

That's because you haven't been watching their values go up over the last 15 or so years... They will get there and many variants of the S30Z series are there already.. Good early S30Z's have already got there...the cost of restoration will only go up over time. Restore now, hold for 20 years and sell in future at a premium, not unlike the stock market or real estate, what matters is time in market.

I have watched the values for sure and if you think spending  $50k to restore a car that might be worth $50k 20 years from now go right ahead. What people tend to forget, prices move with age and interest. Datsun Z cars have gone up in value but will never be a Porsche of the same era value. Datsun owners/lovers just don't spend the coin for these cars to ever stay at the $70k to $100k value.  Trust me, I know of a few cars that have changed hands for high dollar but that is usually from one wealthy person to another because they have to have it and it will sit in a garage with their other collector cars. The 432R, 432, ZG and "69" model Z cars hold the highest value and will continue to due to their rarity and history. Most important, race history. I see Z cars, our market peeking in the next 10 years as the people who grew up with them start to age. People today wouldn't even spend $1000 for a set of new fenders but you think there are many out there willing to pay $80k.

 

Don't think so......

[Gav240z]

Time will prove 1 of us right I suppose? Interest in these cars is increasing all the time. In North American there is still a lot out there, but 240z's are getting harder to find and original cars even harder I'm sure.

Each market is also different, because input costs vary significantly. Parts access and suppliers are more plentiful over yours side of the pond. Here in Australia we have to import a lot of stuff and that increases the costs of restoration. Good 240z's have already nudged $80k AUD here. Many have spent even more restoring them.

Very early 240z's (1970 models, we didn't get 1969 cars here) of which we only got something like 300 here are thin in the ground and supply of parts same.

The 1 thing I think we can all agree on, is that you see very few correctly restored cars done to a high standard come up for sale. So it's hard to know where the top end of the market sits at the moment.

The important thing is that you enjoy these cars, even if my cars halved in value I'd still hang onto them.

[Zed Head]

Fascinating how strongly people can feel about how other people spend their money.

I'd get them running, shoot some clearcoat to retain the patina, and drive them.

[EVILC]

18 minutes ago, Gav240z said:

Time will prove 1 of us right I suppose? Interest in these cars is increasing all the time. In North American there is still a lot out there, but 240z's are getting harder to find and original cars even harder I'm sure.

Each market is also different, because input costs vary significantly. Parts access and suppliers are more plentiful over yours side of the pond. Here in Australia we have to import a lot of stuff and that increases the costs of restoration. Good 240z's have already nudged $80k AUD here. Many have spent even more restoring them.

Very early 240z's (1970 models, we didn't get 1969 cars here) of which we only got something like 300 here are thin in the ground and supply of parts same.

The 1 thing I think we can all agree on, is that you see very few correctly restored cars done to a high standard come up for sale. So it's hard to know where the top end of the market sits at the moment.

The important thing is that you enjoy these cars, even if my cars halved in value I'd still hang onto them.

100% agree that our market isn't where yours is. I believe the export market for us is where the highest  $ for car can be seen. I think we agree that lots of cars we see on B.A.T. are not "restored" correctly and that term is so loosely used. I believe true gems, survivors and OEM restored cars will and should set the standard on value over time.... $60k+ and yes more with time. But a low vin car restored with all repop parts to me can't be placed in the same value. I see the values struggle because the core group of owners can't spend money on their Z car as if it was a Hemi powered muscle car. Lots of guys like to enjoy and drive them. Mod them as they go. Having both sides of the coin is great for the interest of the car. 

 

Hope the seller gets as much as he can and these cars live on through resto or part donors to another car.

Someone needs something....

[tzagi1]

Quote:"The 1 thing I think we can all agree on, is that you see very few correctly restored cars done to a high standard come up for sale. So it's hard to know where the top end of the market sits at the moment." Gav, please understand, 20 to 30 years ago these cars were dirt cheap, I don't think I ever spent more then $1000 on a good running 70-72 240, naturally most have been modified with 280 hardware that were cheaper still. That was then ...this is now, no one thought about originality or the (possibility of the) current price tags.

[Gav240z]

39 minutes ago, EVILC said:

I see the values struggle because the core group of owners can't spend money on their Z car as if it was a Hemi powered muscle car. Lots of guys like to enjoy and drive them. Mod them as they go. Having both sides of the coin is great for the interest of the car. 

But remember only dirty hippies with no money drove VW Kombi van's back in the day. Demographics change of course and so does the wealth of certain groups.

 

38 minutes ago, tzagi1 said:

Gav, please understand, 20 to 30 years ago these cars were dirt cheap, I don't think I ever spent more then $1000 on a good running 70-72 240, naturally most have been modified with 280 hardware that were cheaper still. That was then ...this is now, no one thought about originality or the (possibility of the) current price tags.

Exactly, which is why finding a good original example is so difficult. Hence why they will command a premium and hold their values in my opinion. Originality is often what is desired in collector car markets. I don't see many truly original survivors these days.

[tzagi1]

And for a good reason, originality ment NOTHING Lets take my car as an example (71 240, very original+-), Bought it in the early 1990 for peanuts in good running order. naturally it had to be hot rodded, Suspension techniques springs, lowered adjustable Tociko struts 280 block,5 speed,(1977 280) E31 head ported and polished, 262 degree cam, header and dual webers. It is in that exact configuration toady and is a very period correct for the early 90's The original engine and trans are sitting in storage in socal... Most of the interior is still original; such as door panels and interior are original, most have been refinished, the dash is a 72-74 (has the lighter in it) this is just how it was back then. Do I regret not keeping it all original? absolutely not, its a much better car then ever came from the factory. is it way too low and stiff for me today (50+) absolutly Am I planning to bring it back to stock height? not any time soon, its a go cart with way too much HP and its fun,althu...today I might prefer a GT and not a hooligans car it was built as. but you got to wizz with the **** you have.(IE I will never built another this way) /

[Gav240z]

I don't disagree these cars can be "better" or more fun modified. Why do you think I have 4 of them? ?

#51 - Will go back as original as possible, but impossible to be a survivor given it's level of rust.

#150 - Will be done to as high standard as I can manage (it's my first FULL restoration), but I am looking for a more fun driver quality car than absolutely mint concourse restoration.

#1415 - Is very original, but has deteriorated, but I want to keep as much patina as possible, however it may just need a repaint. I will try and resist this.

#10552 - I am slowly building towards as Works Rally Tribute car.

I personally think all Early S30Z's are worth saving - within reason if possible.

But I want to let the seller get on with selling his cars. ?

[tzagi1]

I only have 3... a 71, a 77 and a 78, by far the 71 is the most rust free, the other 2 have some spots here and there that need to be addressed and both need full restoration (cosmetically mostly).