country of origin of HLS30-00957

[M3333hp]

@Carl Beck

@240DKW

Thanks very much for your responses.

Carl, yes this is Peter in Nanoose Bay, BC. I think I contacted you previously asking you the question about my car's history---whether it was initially sold in the US. But advancing age, I guess, caused me to forget our previous contact and to alert you to my question yet again. Anyway, thanks for the information in your comments. That's helpful, and I'll try to follow that route up.

240DKW, I agree that I can look to the original engine that's in the car to prove that my car, 0957, has a US build and not a Canadian build. Thanks for pointing that out. The fact that the seller told me that it was an Oregon car is consistent with the US build features on the engine. As to whether that's enough to prove to US authorities, should someone want to do that, that the car originally came from the US is not unclear, but might be worth trying. The question is whether that would be convincing to authorities if someone were to try (re)importing the car into the US. 

[M3333hp]

@Zed Head

You’re right, I did mix up who said exactly what. It was member 240dkw who said “I really do not think he [that is, me] is trying to mess with any VIN”, not you.

But that’s not all there is to say about that. Notice that member 240dkw responded to what you said by saying that he didn’t think I was “trying to mess with any VIN”. That shows that he interpreted your comments as suggesting that the VIN of my car might have been messed with, possibly by me.

Likewise, I also thought that your comments suggested that the VIN of my car might have been messed with. Like commenter 240dkw, I also wondered why you talked about “reVINing” cars, and about a member from Oregon [which I was told was where my car came from] who “feels fine with moving VIN tags over to different bodies”.

You were asking questions that both member 240DKw and I interpreted as implying that someone, possibly me, had “messed with the VIN”.

And why did you also say:

“Not sure why you're not giving more info. Is it one of those sketchy ‘lost title’ cars? The Oregon guy drove it in to Canada and left it maybe? No offense intended but the story has holes”,

and that I “did not appear to have proper paperwork”

and “Apparently he doesn’t have any transaction paperwork”

and “he might not even have proof that the car is his”.

Saying that a “story has holes” and those other comments above clearly implies that the storyteller---me---is possibly, or probably, being dishonest.

You have no information that would lead to those potentially damaging conjectures. To bring up “reVINing” cars and someone from Oregon who “feels fine with moving VIN tags over to different bodies” in a discussion about my Oregon car is remarkable in the worst possible way, and potentially damaging to me.

And saying that “...maybe there are problems with the title or will be in the future” and that “It kind of looks like [I’m] seeking information to help [me] get a proper title” adds nothing other than negative, totally unfounded, doubts about me and the car.

You could have asked whether I have a proper title for the car, showing the VIN that I included in my description of the car, or about anything else about the car, but instead you seem to have assumed the worst.

As for your comment that “The car has all of the ID tags removed”, it’s surprising that you would take that to mean there are doubts about the car’s authenticity as HLS30-00957. It’s normal for many owners to remove the door plate and the engine bay plate when there’s a compete repaint from the bare shell so there’s no overspray on the plates or need to mask them, which usually looks bad. If you had asked about those tags, or about the VIN etched (not stamped) on the firewall instead of assuming the worst, I could have explained that to you.

Your comments that I “did not appear to have proper paperwork” and that I “didn’t mention that had a proper title” are amazing, since there was no reason for you to think those things. All you had to do was ask.....not assume the worst.

Those kinds of comments could create doubts about the accuracy of my description of the car as HLS30-00957, whether you intended to create those doubts or not. And that could be very damaging to me and possibly also to whoever owns the car after me when I eventually sell it.

I am very surprised that you would be so reckless in your comments on this site, especially since this is the best known website for vintage Z cars.

There are reasons why I did not list every piece of information that you think was important or necessary for my request at the top of this thread. Things like the fact that I do not want to name the seller here without knowing that he is OK with that, that the seller was Canadian, not from Oregon, and I that have not been able to contact him because he has moved. Contrary to your implication, I do know the seller’s name and former address, but have not been able to contact him.

Unfortunately I don’t have the names or records from any previous owners before him. That's why I posted on this site asking for information.

You could have just accepted my approach to asking for help as I did, or you could have requested more information from me, but instead you made a number of very negative assumptions about the situation and about my intentions, and then you broadcast them here, on the best known website about vintage Z cars.

I don’t know why you would do that, but I resent your unfounded implications and your approach to “discussion”, which seems to be to assume the worst about someone’s intentions.

I think it would be best for everyone, especially for this wonderful site, if you and I had no further communication.

 

@wal280z  Thank you for your comments and the tip about the @. I appreciate it.

@Carl Beck

@240DKW

@240260280

@Mark Maras

@26th-Z

[Zed Head]

Sorry.  Not sure how "reckless" gets thrown in here.  That implies that I'm exposing somebody to some sort of danger.  Where's the danger?   I don't even know what you're trying to defend.  Your honor?  The provenance of the car?  

At the end of this long thread, it's still just a car in Canada, with a single Canada title, containing one name.  So, despite all of this, nothing has been gained.  And I had nothing to do with that lack of advancement.  I asked some questions and pointed out some possibilities.

But, here is something useful - I don't think that you need any of this to sell the car to a buyer in the United States.  Which is why you said you were looking for it, for import purposes.

 

By the way, you have to hold the @ symbol and pick the names from a pop-up menu.  It doesn't always work right either @  I only got one to work. 

@

@wal280z

 

[Zed Head]

One thing that people often overlook, or get confused about, is that the "United States" are not really united.  Each state has their own set of vehicle laws.  That's where the problems come in.  There are states here in the USA where you could probably drive that car through the woods over the Canada/US border, and and sneak it in the back way and they'd give you a new title and register it with no problems, for cheap.  Other states probably would never allow it.

Here's Hagerty's advice.  They make it sound simple.  Texas is one of those easy states, I think, even though he says otherwise. 

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2018/02/07/how-to-import-a-car-from-canada-to-the-us

All in all, the process to import a 25-year-old (or older) car from Canada to the U.S. was surprisingly easy, even though the State of Texas was a royal pain to deal with, as always. All I needed to get the car into the country was:

1. Canadian title/registration
2. Bill of sale
3. Temporary U.S. transit permit or license plate
4. DOT form HS-7
5. EPA form 3520
6. Cash or credit card to pay import duty

 

 

[rturbo 930]

You can't just imply that someone is tampering with a VIN tag, or withholding pertinent info like they're intentionally hiding something and not expect them to be annoyed. You've done this before, in the thread by 87mj, and now you're doing it again, assuming that the person posting is up to no good when in reality, they're just looking for info or advice. You're out of line. And quite frankly, I really don't know where you come up with this stuff to begin with. I don't think anyone else reading his posts saw any ill intent on his part.

Edited November 7, 2018 by rturbo 930

[Patcon]

I believe a lot of this is misunderstanding and the limitations of communicating through a forum. I dont think zed head is trying to impugn or injure anyone but for all I know he got taken by someone on the internet and is a little suspicious now. We have also occasionally had discussions on altering vins in the past and some people are more ok with that then others. As these cars become more valuable and the production history is so hit or miss it may become a bigger problem.  History has shown zed head to always be available to help solve problems.

By the way I'm not paranoid if everyone's really out to get me. ?

[Zed Head]

To rturbo -

He said he didn't know where the car came from.  He just bought it from some guy who said it came from Oregon.  In the very first post.

You can't just pop in to the middle of a thread, full of righteous indignation.  You have to start at the beginning, like I did.  The OP gave the bare minimum of information, and it looked like he bought a car on the seller's word alone.  Not my fault if he's not a thorough writer.  Not my fault if you're not a thorough reader.  Start at post #1.  Read the attached links.

To the OP - I'm sorry that your car doesn't have much verifiable history.  That seems like what you're really looking for, despite the "ability to import" concerns.  You'll probably have no problem selling that car to someone in the US.  Good luck.

 

Edit - thanks Patcon.  I think that some people are just happy to see another old VIN number and are irritated that anybody would even question it.  Even though they'd probably go to great lengths to verify the VIN and title before they bought it.  Probably implying some of the same things they're accusing me of.  Ironic.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Zed Head

[siteunseen]

1 hour ago, Patcon said:

 History has shown zed head to always be available to help solve problems.

Yes he has!  Keep up the good work Sir.

[rturbo 930]

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

To rturbo -

He said he didn't know where the car came from.  He just bought it from some guy who said it came from Oregon.  In the very first post.

You can't just pop in to the middle of a thread, full of righteous indignation.  You have to start at the beginning, like I did.  The OP gave the bare minimum of information, and it looked like he bought a car on the seller's word alone.  Not my fault if he's not a thorough writer.  Not my fault if you're not a thorough reader.  Start at post #1.  Read the attached links.

 

You assume I haven't been reading the thread this entire time, and that somehow, if I were to go back and read the beginning, I might somehow change my mind. I've read all the same posts that you did and nothing in a single one of them made me think he might be tampering with something.

[wal280z]

I'm done here.

I posted a reasonable suggestion of why the OP may not have had the info on the prior seller, but since then the OP has indicated that he knows the name and the former, key word being FORMER address of the prior owner and that information has been withheld due to the OP's concern of privacy issues (I agree) , but that lack of information continues to be an excuse of why the accusations have continued.

@M3333hp I understand the desire to track the HISTORY of the vehicle currently in your ownership. Other than following what Carl Beck stated with a PI, you could spend countless hours searching here for your car from the former owner(s).

I myself, like to help people. One thing I have learned though, is that if I don't have first hand knowledge, I stay out of the conversation unless specifically tagged. I won't post unverified information. Sure, it's posted on CZCC, but did you verify it? Do you own that model car?  Sometimes posting unverified information leads one in a misdirection. (Post #3)  I'm guilty of it. I don't do that anymore. Guess that's part of the reason I don't have a high post count.

Lastly, I apologize for misdirection on the use of the "@' symbol. When using the '@' symbol, the poster needs to type a few letters of the user name and click on that user's name in order to 'tag' them by the 'blue box' and send an email. @wal280z