Finally Got My Garage Mahal!!!

[Marty Rogan]

2 hours ago, Patcon said:

That's a beautiful place. I love the landscaping around the house. Your shop is 2 1/2 times larger than mine! what I could hoard up in there!

I would locate the compressor outside, but it needs to be protected from freezing. It makes it hard to start up and residual water can freeze in the lines.

Distributed air is really nice. Also a lot of wall outlets 44" off the floor. That way there is counter height power everywhere. Good work benches a must. A metal topped bench is really nice. I agree on ventilation. I also want as much light as I can get. I want operating room bright. I would switch them on multiple switches so I can run what I want and get it brighter when needed. Enclosed storage is nice or even a dedicated parts room. You could make the ceiling of the parts room the mezzanine area like Jeff suggested. I can help you size the framing if you need help. I might want a partition to keep tractors, mowers and small engine tools separate from the shop area with separate access doors. Some 220v power for a good welder. Hot and cold water and a bathroom. I also have a stacked washer dryer in my shop bathroom. I wash grungy rags, drop clothes and shop towels in it

It sounds like a large (4'x8??) metal topped bench on casters is the way to go.

Right now there are 10 pretty crappy barn style lights in there.  I bought some LED light fixtures that I believe are 6500 lumens each. I am going to need more than 10 of them though.  If I go with a white steel ceiling that should make it pretty bright, I would think.

One of the original plans was to put in a 6'x10' bathroom, with a shower, so I could get cleaned up before going back into the house.  My architect student son laid it out for me.  I figured the parts mezzanine would go up on top of there.  As I start to price things out, I am afraid it would cost too much to put in the bathroom.  The barn is 200+ feet from the house.  That is a lot of trenching, water and waste pipes. I would also need to tie that into the existing septic tank, if that is even possible. Another car guy down the block wants to do the same.  He got a quote of $3K just for a septic tank.  I will have to think real hard on that part.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Marty Rogan

[Marty Rogan]

2 hours ago, Home Built by Jeff said:

One more thing to think about before you go too far, is painting the floor. Makes it much easier to clean up and looks better for longer, but it is pretty hard to do once you start filling it ? 

Yeah, that is probably a wise choice.  I already have a ton of car stuff in there, but I could paint half of it at a time and then move the stuff over to the other side to finish it up.

[Marty Rogan]

2 hours ago, 26th-Z said:

Marty,

I didn't catch your square footage and dimensions.  I'm in the process of building a garage and I'm really enjoying all the comments.  You're are going to spend as much money 'setting up shop' as you spent on the whole building !   Interesting construction type - post and truss framing with siding on purin or bent framing.  Lovely piece of property!

It is 36'x64', so just over 2,300 square feet.  Up  here they call it a pole ban. Build as big of a garage as they will let you.  You never have enough space. You need a large space to work on No 26 & 27.

[Patcon]

I wouldn't do the shower because it adds a lot of cost. You could do a little point of use electric water heater to feed the sink or even a washing machine, but it won't feed a shower very well. They make a system that is designed for basements where the toilet has a holding tank below grade. Then a macerator pump lifts the sewage through a 2" pvc to the septic tank. The length of the line affects head height some, but the actual elevation is the bigger issue. From the looks of your layout I think that would be a good solution. You could either cut the tank into the shop floor, put it in the gravel area or even install a small catch tank outside and then lift from there to the house system. They're not overly expensive and have pump heads heights that should work. Just remember, some of this work will never be cheaper than now. Why metal on the ceiling? I think I would prefer sheet rock maybe Type X rock on the ceiling. If the metal isn't really well insulated it will sweat, and having it rain inside your shop will be no fun! Also sheet rock will make a better air seal. The better you seal up the walls and joints, the easier it will be to control moisture.

That is an issue that hasn't been mentioned before. I have to run a dehumidifier full time to keep stuff from molding and rusting in my shop. I don't know if that will be an issue for you in your area.

[26th-Z]

Wow!  That's twice as large as I am planning.  Very nice!  I'm dealing with a more "urban" setting.  No where near as much land and the neighbors would appreciate something that looks more like a pool house.  None-the-less, I'll have plenty of space and much more than what I'm dealing with now.

[Marty Rogan]

3 hours ago, Patcon said:

I wouldn't do the shower because it adds a lot of cost. You could do a little point of use electric water heater to feed the sink or even a washing machine, but it won't feed a shower very well. They make a system that is designed for basements where the toilet has a holding tank below grade. Then a macerator pump lifts the sewage through a 2" pvc to the septic tank. The length of the line affects head height some, but the actual elevation is the bigger issue. From the looks of your layout I think that would be a good solution. You could either cut the tank into the shop floor, put it in the gravel area or even install a small catch tank outside and then lift from there to the house system. They're not overly expensive and have pump heads heights that should work. Just remember, some of this work will never be cheaper than now. Why metal on the ceiling? I think I would prefer sheet rock maybe Type X rock on the ceiling. If the metal isn't really well insulated it will sweat, and having it rain inside your shop will be no fun! Also sheet rock will make a better air seal. The better you seal up the walls and joints, the easier it will be to control moisture.

That is an issue that hasn't been mentioned before. I have to run a dehumidifier full time to keep stuff from molding and rusting in my shop. I don't know if that will be an issue for you in your area.

I had a contractor out at the house for some other work.  I had him look at the barn while he was here.  He also talked about the macerator pump. Unfortunately, his plumber blew out his knee before he could come out and work up a quote.  I had heard stories about raining inside of a pole barn.  The contractor recommended the steel ceiling , with blown in insulation in the attic.  He recommended some additional ventilation to keep the air flowing in the attic.

Sheet rock might be tricky.  The trusses are 8' apart.  I am not sure if the trusses are designed for the additional framing that would be required.  I am trying to get the company that built the building to come out and discuss my options. I also want to discuss with them the best way to insulate.  The walls that are finished so far do not have a vapor barrier.  That really concerns me. I don't want the walls sweating and get moisture in the insulation.

[Patcon]

53 minutes ago, Marty Rogan said:

I had a contractor out at the house for some other work.  I had him look at the barn while he was here.  He also talked about the macerator pump. Unfortunately, his plumber blew out his knee before he could come out and work up a quote.  I had heard stories about raining inside of a pole barn.  The contractor recommended the steel ceiling , with blown in insulation in the attic.  He recommended some additional ventilation to keep the air flowing in the attic.

Sheet rock might be tricky.  The trusses are 8' apart.  I am not sure if the trusses are designed for the additional framing that would be required.  I am trying to get the company that built the building to come out and discuss my options. I also want to discuss with them the best way to insulate.  The walls that are finished so far do not have a vapor barrier.  That really concerns me. I don't want the walls sweating and get moisture in the insulation.

Condensate could be a problem inside the walls too. If you use ridgid foam for insulation it won't be affected by the moisture. It is also very vapor impermeable, so it makes a good air seal and vapor barrier. It would also be something you could DIY to save money if you wanted to. 8' OC, that's pretty far! The trusses were made by somebody and they would have a truss design drawing that would specify acceptable loads for the trusses  Eight feet is a long way to go even with metal, especially if you're going to load it down with insulation. I would want R30 as a minimum, preferably R38 or 40 or more. The more you have the more comfortable the shop will be. The ceiling insulation is the most important. The walls are next. I have had sheet rock bow over time from blown R30 on 16" OC (On Center) framing from the weight of the insulation, which is really pretty light. Eight feet of that will add up really fast. The trusses look pretty beefy but I would still want an engineer to sign off on adding the necessary framing, ceiling and lighting loads. If you can't get the original truss company to sign off, you might could get another truss vendor to check the design. Most of the truss vendors in our area use MiTech design software to do truss work. Existing loads, roof pitch, span, member size, and nailing plate size should be enough info to get close. You could also add a truss in between each bay at 4' OC and add a double 2x6 as a post on either end. I would think that would get you pretty close to doing anything you wanted with the ceiling. If you went gyp you would need to strap it the other way (perpendicular) w/ 1x4's @ 16" on center. Or you could probably run metal across the trusses at 4' OC. You would have to make sure the metal could handle the Insulation load.

[Marty Rogan]

Well, it has been a while, so I figured it was time for an update on the Garage Mahal.

I was able to get the horse stall area concreted in this spring, so I now have 100% of the floor space in usable condition.

In the first week of June, I had the asphalt drive way put in.  They did a great job.  I now have a lot of parking area and space to turn around with the trailer to back the race car into the barn. I can back to the whole rig in, with the truck still attached, close the door and just walk into the house.  No more 45-60 minutes to unload when I get home from a track weekend.  That used to really annoy the wife.

The original builder of the barn came out to give me an estimate on the ceiling.  He said that the trusses would have no trouble supporting a steel ceiling with R38 blown-in insulation.  I am thinking about going with maybe R49 for better heating economy.  I got several quotes on heating.  The 12' ceiling height was not quite enough to make radiant tube heating work.  They said it could bake the paint right off the cars. It needed to be at least 16' to make it work. So, I am going with a forced air unit.  I just need to finalize my research to decide if I go with natural gas, or LP gas.  The local gas company said it would cost me $3K to trench the gas lines out to the barn.

I have got most of the wiring done.  All of the wall outlets are in.  I  also put in a 220 line.  I wired in 6 more lights for the ceiling and added 4 lights along the back wall over the work bench area.  All of the lights will be 3810 lumens, so I am hoping it is pretty bright.  My wife is always giving me crap by saying "Do you want to do surgery in there!?'  My response ..."Exactly!!"  The brighter the better in my book.  I still need to figure out how to install 2 ceiling fans on the trusses.

A lot of the quotes were coming in higher than I anticipated, so I am giving up on the idea of running water out to the barn.  It would be nice, but it is not a necessity.

All of the wall insulation is in.  About half of the vapor barrier has been installed. About half of the previously installed wall has been put back up, and the rest of the wall materials have been purchased.

Over the long 4th of July Holiday (took Friday off too), I put in a lot of hard work to get stuff done.  So, as a little reward to myself, yesterday afternoon, I got the Z out for the first time this year and went for a drive up Route 67 in Southern WI.  67 is a nice curvy road that goes through the Kettle Moraine Valley.  The Kettle is a really beautiful area and a popular destination for a car or motor cycle cruise.

It feels good to get this much progress.  There is still a lot left to do.  That's it for now.

Later,

Marty 

 

 

 

 

 

[Patcon]

Yup, brighter is better!

[grannyknot]

On 7/8/2019 at 2:44 PM, Marty Rogan said:

There is still a lot left to do.

Marty, any updates?

[Marty Rogan]

You bet!

The wiring, vapor barrier and walls are all done. I fired up the LED lights at the back wall to see how bright they are.  They should work out pretty nicely, especially with a white ceiling.

The walls turned out really nice.  I built a neat access door to cover the power panel out of the same boards.  It blends in so well, you almost don't notice it.

The piping, wiring and structure are installed for the 125K Modine unit to hang from the ceiling.  The propane tank was delivered and installed on Friday.  Unfortunately, the ceiling contractor is backlogged until February or March.  He said he would try to work me in on bad weather days when his guys can't work outside. If it wasn't for that delay, I would have been right on time to get it heated before winter.  

I also snagged a nice deal on a large tool box from Home Depot.

Well, I have done as much as I can do until the ceiling is installed.   I really can't wait to get it done, so I can start organizing the place.  All of my car parts and supplies are just piled in the center of the barn right now.

That's it for now till I get the ceiling and heat in.

Marty 

 

[siteunseen]

Man, you Z people do it right!

That's really nice. I have the car but not the stalls. One of these days!