Cranks, no start

[Captain Obvious]

Try this... Make sure your battery is up to top charge (after all the fruitless cranking) and disconnect the connector to the CSV (which will disable the CSV).

Then hold your foot on the pedal "a little bit" (like where your foot would be when you are cruising on a flat level road) and then crank it to see if it will start. Now, don't expect instant operation... I removed my CSV a while ago and I can definitely tell that it takes longer to start without it. Not enough to make me want to put it back on, but definitely longer.

Might take me five to ten seconds of cranking to get it to fire if the temp is 40 or lower? Doesn't sound like a lot of cranking when you read it like that, but count "one-one thousand, two-one thousand, etc" for six seconds and picture yourself holding the key while you do that. It's a significant amount of time and longer than what you've been doing in your videos.

[Zed Head]

1 hour ago, Captain Obvious said:

I still think the obvious explanation is that you are flooding your engine by trying to start an engine that was working properly when there was a significant bypass around the throttle plate (the AAR). You removed that bypass and didn't add extra air from somewhere else, but you kept the fuel the same.

This does make the most sense.  I feel bad for getting distracted with the other stuff.

The assumption was that you removed a functioning AAR but if your AAR was stuck in that position, never fully closing like it's supposed to then the idle adjustment bypass would have been adjusted down to almost closed to make up for the AAR opening.  When it was removed you're left with no air with the throttle closed..

If you want to take CO's suggestion one step further just open up your idle speed screw, the screw with the big head and a spring under it.  Turn it counterclockwise a few turns.  Then you'll still be on the idle circuit of the TVS, but with more air.  You'll need to do that anyway, probably.  Hope that's it.  Now you are an EFI expert.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Zed Head

[Zed Head]

1 hour ago, Captain Obvious said:

I still think the obvious explanation is that you are flooding your engine by trying to start an engine that was working properly when there was a significant bypass around the throttle plate (the AAR).

It might not even really be flooding, explaining the dry plugs.  It's more of a choking.  No air flow in to the cylinders to pull the CSV fuel.  Also explains the gas smell, the intake manifold is loaded up with CSV gasoline that never moved.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Zed Head

[charliekwin]

I don't know if you guys are Simpsons fans, but there's an episode where a doctor tells Mr. Burns he's alive because all of his ailments are fighting each other and staying in balance. I think back on things done by POs that I've fixed in the past (throttle position switch, missing thermostat, bad coolant temp sensor) and it reminds me of that scene.

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[Captain Obvious]

Well don't get all hopeful yet guys. It's just a theory. The simple (the Obvious) one to look into. Hopefully it's that easy, but it's still a potentially failed avenue.

However, in the end of all this, I do hope you completely clean up all the wiring going to the sensors in the throttle body. Clean, shiny, well packaged.

[Captain Obvious]

10 hours ago, charliekwin said:

doctor tells Mr. Burns he's alive because all of his ailments are fighting each other and staying in balance.

Pretty much every Z I've messed with is in this category. AFM's adjusted to account for vacuum leaks. Idle speeds adjusted to account for BCDD leaks. Etc...

[charliekwin]

Car runs!

I put the rail back on, opened up the idle screw one full turn and it fired right up.

Tried to turn it back a bit and it died. Looks like it had been turned in too far to compensate for the stuck AAR.

Air, fuel, spark. In retrospect, I got too hung up on it running once after removing the AAR. And took for granted that it was getting air.

On the plus side, I saved a trip on a tow truck with the burst hose. And it's idling better, so I'm ahead of where I was at the beginning. That's what got this started to begin with.

And yes Capt, that mess of wiring has been on my to-do list since forever. It keeps working and passing smog, so it never moves up.

Many thanks to all for their help.

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[240260280]

Don't you try to at least  press the gas pedal to give it some air when starting after a few seconds of  cranking and no taking?

[charliekwin]

Of course, but it wouldn't fire. I think it was flooded, but that's just me guessing.

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[240260280]

I't must be something else. A closed off idle air should not have prevented it firing up. Otherwise it would have fired  and would have died after you took your foot off the pedal.

[charliekwin]

Forgot to mention that I left the CSV disconnected too. That and the idle screw adjustment are the only things different.

[Captain Obvious]

17 hours ago, charliekwin said:

Car runs! I put the rail back on, opened up the idle screw one full turn and it fired right up.

Awesome! My kind of problem!! A non-problem!

So either it was just the wiener in the warp drive from taking off the AAR and starving the engine for air, or there's an electrical intermittent connection in your wiring tangles. You'll find out at the most in-opportune time. 

But even if it isn't keeping you from passing smog, you might want to take some time off from other projects on the car and clean that stuff up. I've found a great sense of peace knowing that all my EFI connections are new, clean, and tight.