KONI Sports for Classic Z's

[madkaw]

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

Is the bottom of the insert you removed narrower than the bottom of the Koni?  To allow it to drop down lower in the tube, past the shoulder at the bottom of the hole.

Just curious about why the Konis only seem to have this problem.  

KYB’s . It looks like a hefty weld bead on the bottom of the strut assembly . The KONI is wider at the bottom of the cartridge, and I believe the cartridge is hitting the weld bead . KYB’s also have that small pedestal on the bottom of its  . The cartridge should have been shorter . The last red Koni’s I took out of my 70 had the gland nut  integral with the cartridge . 

[Joseph@TheZStore]

Sorry folks, you may have seen the note we put up in our store, this Covid thing has forced a couple more guys to step down to take care of family, including James temporarily, and we were already short on warm bodies, so we've been a bit overwhelmed, but still standing and swinging. We have a couple of new guys starting soon, both of them Z owners, so if we've missed any of your emails or messages know we're working hard to get caught up.

I was able to check in with Lee between his recent business trips. He is traveling (again), and having log-in issues, but I mentioned the Stainless issue to him and he said that the hardware is chromed steel, not stainless. Now that discussion is above my pay grade, lol, so I'll let Lee pick up any further questions when he gets back.

It has already been answered previously, but that disc is completely there just to avoid possible air damage to the seal, by giving paths for the air to move freely if the bump stop comes all the way down. I guess they used to see it happen way back and thus came up with the disc as a simple yet fully effective solution.

One of the projects that has suffered with the current situations is making a picture-gram of how the pieces go together on the strut just to add clarity. The sleeve and the bump stop go together like this image I took. I believe this was also described early on in this thread, but I never made it to making that diagram/image. Sorry about that. I'll make a real one soon with all the pieces.

Then instructions are also something Lee is looking into, but those wheels turn pretty slow, especially with our current world. Somebody said it was done like that to make it work for all languages, which is exactly correct.

We hate to see that anybody had any trouble with their struts, but it is great to hear from so many who love the performance.

Ok, it's nearing 10:30 pm here in SoCal, back to answering more emails!
 

[AK260]

[mention] Joseph@TheZStore [/mention] thanks for coming back on this and great to be speaking with a firm that properly listen to their clientele!

 

The galling is definitely an issue that they need to consider seriously, as undoubtedly others will also be experiencing this at some point. The teething issues with instructions etc will be sorted soon enough and as you say, an exploded diagram of sorts will be great.

 

Thank you also for validating the bump stop / spacer bushing orientation. Would be interesting to see how others find it - when I experimented with that orientation, I found that the bump stop would be crushed against the spring top hat when the whole thing is torqued up and I wasn’t sure if that would reduce it’s lifespan.

 

I’m sorry to hear you have men / women down at the moment. Having parents and friends who had COVID, I know it’s quite unpleasant but I’m sure I speak for us all when I say that we wish them a speedy recovery. Well done for keeping things going.

 

The Zstore has always been a pleasure to deal with for me, especially confirmed when you replaced my damaged in transit Konis without a single word of quibble and gave me store credits for the additional taxes the UK government charged. Keep up the great work and hang in there, COVID will pass.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[madkaw]

5 hours ago, Joseph@TheZStore said:

Sorry folks, you may have seen the note we put up in our store, this Covid thing has forced a couple more guys to step down to take care of family, including James temporarily, and we were already short on warm bodies, so we've been a bit overwhelmed, but still standing and swinging. We have a couple of new guys starting soon, both of them Z owners, so if we've missed any of your emails or messages know we're working hard to get caught up.

I was able to check in with Lee between his recent business trips. He is traveling (again), and having log-in issues, but I mentioned the Stainless issue to him and he said that the hardware is chromed steel, not stainless. Now that discussion is above my pay grade, lol, so I'll let Lee pick up any further questions when he gets back.

It has already been answered previously, but that disc is completely there just to avoid possible air damage to the seal, by giving paths for the air to move freely if the bump stop comes all the way down. I guess they used to see it happen way back and thus came up with the disc as a simple yet fully effective solution.

One of the projects that has suffered with the current situations is making a picture-gram of how the pieces go together on the strut just to add clarity. The sleeve and the bump stop go together like this image I took. I believe this was also described early on in this thread, but I never made it to making that diagram/image. Sorry about that. I'll make a real one soon with all the pieces.

Then instructions are also something Lee is looking into, but those wheels turn pretty slow, especially with our current world. Somebody said it was done like that to make it work for all languages, which is exactly correct.

We hate to see that anybody had any trouble with their struts, but it is great to hear from so many who love the performance.

Ok, it's nearing 10:30 pm here in SoCal, back to answering more emails!
 

The steel bushing orientation was not discussed earlier in this thread , that’s why I posted the question . AK260 showed what he did for orientation , which seemed to make sense , but now you show the bushing flipped the other way . It would seem to me that AK260 has it correct to extend travel of the bump stop . It would be nice to get some clarity from KONI . 

[madkaw]

So disappointed that the modified gland nuts do not get the job done . Even modified I only have 1-1/2 turns on the gland nut . Still showing 6mm of nut . They only machined off 2mm when they should have done 4. 
Called MSA - and it’s basically my problem . It’s my fault that the strut tube has a factory weld bead at the bottom . I could somehow grind the weld down at the bottom of the tube - yeah . So these modified glands are not a guarantee that these will fit your early Z . My car being a 9/71 isn’t that early - but early enough I guess . Now I get to pay a machinist to modify the modified gland nuts that are supposed to fit my year car - woohoo. 
Not much sympathy from MSA , they just sell the shocks .

[Zed Head]

When I swapped my original oil for inserts I messed around with trying to make the aluminum Nissan gland nuts work.  Mainly because they looked cool and I wasn't clear at the time about how the gland nut worked.  I bought some thick o-rings to place inside the Nissan gland nut to center the shock and I think that it would have worked, after clamping the nut down.  But then I figured that the steel KYB nut was the better choice.

Point - maybe you can make the Nissan nut work buy adding material, a spacer/centering ring, instead of removing material from the Koni nut.

[madkaw]

22 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

When I swapped my original oil for inserts I messed around with trying to make the aluminum Nissan gland nuts work.  Mainly because they looked cool and I wasn't clear at the time about how the gland nut worked.  I bought some thick o-rings to place inside the Nissan gland nut to center the shock and I think that it would have worked, after clamping the nut down.  But then I figured that the steel KYB nut was the better choice.

Point - maybe you can make the Nissan nut work buy adding material, a spacer/centering ring, instead of removing material from the Koni nut.

The KONI nut is a thick walled nut . Even after increasing the ID , it still has close to 1/8” wall thickness . It just needed to be cut deeper and it would have been fine . Better yet - the KONIs should have been made -like most shocks for this  car- with a smaller ID at the bottom to keep off the weld bead at the bottom  

[Zed Head]

I was just offering another way to get the Konis to work.  They already told you that you're on your own.  What can you do?

So, for the record, this is for the 9/71 240Z in your sig?  Maybe the 240Z's just had a lot of variation in parts.  Nobody would have paid much attention to the bottom inside of the tube since it was only meant to hold oil.  Never meant to seat a shock/insert.

[madkaw]

I guess I don’t understand your logic . Variance in parts is why you provide a cushion . Also, these shocks were designed to drop in a tube so they need to fit the tube- regardless if it was designed for oil 50 years ago . These shocks were designed or engineered in the last year - at most ? 
Yes it’s a 9/71 . 

[Zed Head]

The engineers in 1971 probably would not even have set a spec on the bottom inside corner of the tube.  There was no need, there was no part that needed to fit there with the original application.  That's my logic on why some have a problem and some don't.  The variation is great, because there was no measurement spec.

But, you're right that Koni should have considered that fact when they produced a part for old 240Z's.  Somehow they overlooked it, and, apparently, assumed that they would all be "the same".  They messed up.  Surprised though, that they gave up on you.  That's not good.

My other logic is that griping at Koni isn't going to get the part in to the tube.  That's why I offered the Nissan gland nut solution.

[Zed Head]

They probably should have used a shorter shock and a standoff, of smaller diameter, at the bottom.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Zed Head

[madkaw]

37 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

They probably should have used a shorter shock and a standoff, of smaller diameter, at the bottom.

I mean - KYB thought it thru . They have a small standoff at the bottom. You give up a bit of shock length , but they fit . I have a pair of old red Koni’s that came out of a 70, I’ll pair them up and see how they compare . Those shocks the gland nut and shock were one piece insert . 
Im going to cut down the gland nut a bit more because I don’t see MSA or Koni doing anything more . I’m hoping if I do anything I will give someone else heads up of the possible headache