KONI Sports for Classic Z's

[Zed Head]

How about making a special washer with a D-shaped hole?  Squared, or slotted, or spanner-holed, whatever depending on the room available, something to grab on to.  Or maybe with the spikes underneath to grab the surface, like a lock-washer.  Leave it under the nut after tightening, for future removal.

Koni or MSA should make them, and include them with the product.

[JagoBlitz]

 

16 hours ago, jonbill said:

cut flats high up on either side of the strut shaft and hold it with an open spanner. 

10 hours ago, Joseph@TheZStore said:

Hello JagoBlitz, while Lee is currently unavailable, he did get the Koni engineers to confirm. They said if you are using some coil over or other custom top or replacement for the mounting insulator, which does not have the "D" shape, if it has room for two additional nuts at the top, you can "lock" those together to hold the shaft, and use special wrenches to tighten the nut below them. However we would add that since many or most custom setups won't have enough room for 3 nuts, then jonbill's suggestion is a good one. We also know of some who have used strong hands and gloves to simply "hold" the shaft in place. Many have tried a "protected" pipe wrench, which is not recommended.

The problem is that once the lock part of the nut is engaged there is no way to prevent the damper shaft from spinning. Below is not enough space to hold onto the D-shape  with an open spanner- I could try to fabricate something from sheet metal though to hold it and get the nut going untiI I can grab the D-shape from above. I really don't want to cut/remove any material from brand new dampers.

Alternatively, I could just use 2 nuts instead of 1 lock nut, that would make the assembly easier, but I would still need a tool to grab the D-shape securely from above. In addition, I would need a torque wrench with an open spanner.

If the top mounting insulator just had a D shape like the OEM design has, this would make things a lot easier.

[jonbill]

make a washer with a D shape hole and bond/weld it in to the top of the top mount. 

[jonbill]

or just buy a cheap impact driver. 

[AK260]

OK I haven’t fully read up the thread but when I was installing mine, I was doing one in a hurry and spun my ratchet hand wrench quite fast - one of the nyloc nuts welded itself onto the shaft!!!

It was a bit of a nightmare but at one point I needed to stop the shaft from spinning, so I cut a length of 17mm ID rubber hose (I think it was from the valve cover breather), cut an opening on its side so that it would slide onto the shaft of the damper. Then I gingerly put a mole wrench onto it and it gripped like hell!!

You will damage the dampers (according to the instructions) if you use an impact wrench on the top nut. But not having read the full discussion I may be misunderstanding what you are trying to do.

Good luck!!! Once you are past the issues, you WILL enjoy the way the car rides with the Konis!

[Joseph@TheZStore]

While these Koni's were designed for the stock equipment at the top, Koni is progressive when it comes to performance items, like lowering springs, and custom top mounts, and always try to find a way to make it work, unlike some other companies. If you have chosen to use a custom mount (pillowball, camber plate, etc.), then hopefully these suggestions will help.

 

One of the Koni techs had a chance to respond this morning: "The idea of using an impact is never recommended. Doing so over the strut nut is essentially a guarantee to destroy the strut internals, or at very least the threads. Using a layer of rubber to protect the rod and set of pliers or vice grips is another option but extreme caution also needs to be taken to ensure the rod is not damaged or marred. If using this method it would also be a good item to hold the shaft at the highest point possible near the upper mount. Try to grab at an area on the rod that less likely to pass through the guide seal during normal compression stroke."

Other thoughts:

jonbill said "make a washer with a D shape hole and bond/weld it in to the top of the top mount."

This could be a great idea, depending on what tops you are using, especially if you may need to remove them often for racing or some other reason. For those skilled in welding, you might even take your custom top mounts, and weld a small piece of metal at the opposite of the D shape. But since the torque spec is so light, even a simple bonding as suggested would be enough to hit the necessary torque figure.

Using pliers and some form of rubber or protection is a time-honored method. Great suggestions we've heard include what AK260 said (cutting a rubber hose from the valve cover breather/etc.); or using an old serpentine belt from the family sedan; or a good rubber hose section or two.

Another option, completely depending on the configuration of the custom mount you are using, might be tools like an oxygen sensor "wrench", if you can find one in a matching size and height that you need. If so, you can use it to torque the nut, and above it either use two nuts to lock the shaft using a wrench, or perhaps the rubber-in-pliers method at the top, not going anywhere near the lower part of the shaft. Many setups won't have room for this option.

For all of these, just keep in mind that if you are using a custom mount setup, it is still your responsibility to ensure the shaft isn't damaged, so always use extreme caution.

[Zed Head]

50 minutes ago, Joseph@TheZStore said:

For all of these, just keep in mind that if you are using a custom mount setup, it is still your responsibility to ensure the shaft isn't damaged, so always use extreme caution.

Here's some more ideas, but it's your fault if you damage it?  

I almost posted earlier about the irony of offering a performance part that is very difficult to use with other performance parts.  Kind of funny.  But if sales are good, carry on.

53 minutes ago, Joseph@TheZStore said:

might be tools like an oxygen sensor "wrench", if you can find one in a matching size and height that you need

Not bad, but the closer option would be a flare wrench crowfoot.  Might work.  Maybe Koni or MSA could do the work to find a size that fits a Z top hat?  And do the math on the proper torque setting.  Honestly after the aggravation most people aren't going to be using a torque wrench anyway though.  Right?

https://www.amazon.com/Sunex-9710M-8-Inch-Crowfoot-Size-10/dp/B0002SRJF4?th=1

 

[Joseph@TheZStore]

50 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

Here's some more ideas, but it's your fault if you damage it?  

I almost posted earlier about the irony of offering a performance part that is very difficult to use with other performance parts.  Kind of funny.  But if sales are good, carry on.

Not bad, but the closer option would be a flare wrench crowfoot.  Might work.  Maybe Koni or MSA could do the work to find a size that fits a Z top hat?  And do the math on the proper torque setting.  Honestly after the aggravation most people aren't going to be using a torque wrench anyway though.  Right?

 

Zed, we respect that, but we're talking about a custom setup, and it would be 100% the same regardless of whether they use a Koni or any other strut cartridge. There are many different custom mount options and types we've seen, and most of them would require their own separate solution. And on many, like those with rubber at the top, or camber movement, the washer-type solutions wouldn't work at all. We'll talk to those custom mount manufacturers we know about options for their products.

For most, simply holding the shaft gently has been successful, since the torque spec needed isn't much. Of course Koni has to stress that if you're not extremely cautious, you can damage the shaft. For instance, many I've read after simply suggest using pliers and a rag, which is strongly not recommended at all, as it is too easy for the teeth to get right through the rag and cause damage. The rubber used should be solid and fairly thick to completely protect the shaft from damage.

On many of the custom mount options we've seen, a crows foot would not work as there would be no room to drop it down to where the nut is (like our street camber plates). However on those where the nut stays near the top and is accessible, then yes, that would be a great option, thanks for suggesting it.

[JagoBlitz]

I give up.
I will use the OEM parts again and will not use the Insulated Spring Seat & Strut Mount Set from MSA and see if I will have any bump stop issues.

You can get enough grip on the damper shaft go get the nut down, but it is still too slipperey to get any decent torque applied. And with the dust boot in the way it is also a PITA to even get a good grip. If anybody manages to do this without an impact gun, please let me know.

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by JagoBlitz

[Zed Head]

Well, that's a bummer.  I didn't realize that MSA is the one selling the part without the D-shaped hole, and that that is the part giving you trouble.  Seems like a major miss, Koni and MSA did not coordinate their efforts.  Opportunity missed.

Is this the part?  It would help if you posted a picture of the area that gives problems.  A thousand words and all that.

https://www.thezstore.com/product/4135/insulated-spring-seat-strut-mount-set-70-78-240z-260z-280z

[JagoBlitz]

That's the one. But basically any other camber plate or strut mount without the D shape design will have this problem.

[JagoBlitz]

On 9/23/2021 at 3:28 PM, Av8ferg said:

Joe, thanks for the post. Im overseas for work but can partly answer some of your questions. You are correct the gland nut I used wasn’t stock but the ones that I removed when replacing the old shock inserts. They were almost identical to the Koni’s except the number of threads. The Koni’s have about 1/2 the amount of threads that the ones I removed. The thread pitch was correct because I tested fitted the Koni gland nut prior to installing the shocks. When I put them on with the shocks, they would thread on fine but when I began hitting high torque values >50 they would pop and be loose again. Almost like they jumped a thread. It was very odd . It happened 3x I tried it and for fear of damage I decided they were unusable. Inspection of
The threads on the strut post those attempts showed no damage at all. There were marks on the top of the shock inserts where the gland nut was bottoming out. When I used the gland nut I previously removed from
The car they were able to bite more threads in the strut and thus not pop or jump threads at torque over >50 but I chose to stop at 70 ftlbs .
The silver ring you see at the top of my strut is a metal tape and a strip of flashing tape. They are there so that I didn’t damage the new powder coating on strut when installing the shocks in the gland nuts with the gland nut tool. There was no modifications to the strut. They’re were stripped with a blasting agent and powder coated.


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I ran into the same problem, but only with the front strut mounts. The gland nut popped loose again before I could reach the required torque spec. Compared to the rears, the front gland nuts had a very loose fit.

I didn't feel like disassembling the rears again and measure/compare everything, so I just torqued them with a lower value.
But I could check the front gland nuts again.
What outer thread diameter should the gland nut be? I think either the thread of gland nut was manufactured too small or the thread diameter in the strut is too large.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by JagoBlitz