280Z fusible links

[Joseph@TheZStore]

On 3/16/2019 at 1:37 PM, Zed Head said:

Really just want to know where MSA and others get their red links, and what I have on mine.  I don't know if I have 0.69 new red or 0.3 old red, or if new red is 0.3 after all.  A test for other people would be nice too.  Plus, sometimes I test things even though they're not a problem.  I can't easily get to the conductor to measure it with the fittings on the end.  

Surprised that the MSA guys didn't reply.  They've been around, on the Koni strut thread.

We’ve been around, just very behind and short-staffed (no excuse, I know), and we wanted to do some research. Thanks as always for linking us in to the thread. That being said, this first response will be just about the Fusible Links themselves.

We have always, and only, sold the genuine factory Nissan fusible links.

The 0.3 link was 24161-N4200, and superceded to 24161-Y0100. No service files show on these numbers. The originals we used to receive decades ago (as far as us “old guys” seem to remember anyway) were Brown. Then, many years ago, Nissan started sending Red links under that same part number. Relatively recently, the Red links were discontinued from Nissan for a time, and then a short while later, they made them available again, but this time what was sent for the same part number was Brown again, not Red. We unfortunately did mess up as far as our listing still recently showing Red (even though we were sending Brown). It was just an oversight where my department neglected to follow up and change “Red” back to “Brown” on the website. But they were always what Nissan was supplying for said part number.

The 0.5 Green link was always 24161-28500, and the 1.25 Black link was always 24161-A0100. There are no supercessions or service files on these specifically (only the 1976 bulletin where they changed to 4 links, as you guys noted). So the 1975 listing was just an embarrassing mistake/unfortunate informational record typo that blossomed (AGAIN by MY department, sheesh. I’ll make sure there are floggings). It has now been fixed to where it should have been, with 74-75 being the “same”, not 75-76 being the “same”. Again, thanks for pointing this out.

As far as the position of the 1.25 link on 77-78, we absolutely did take the positioning we showed directly from Nissan’s documentation, and are conferring with them and our own archived data about the error. I will be going today or tomorrow to access our stored 1978, and will respond to that part soon if there is anything worth adding to the discussion, since you guys have pretty much nailed it all down already.

[wal280z]

On 3/18/2019 at 2:27 PM, Zed Head said:

Just curious, this discussion could go on and on, but why didn't you just buy Nissan parts from Nissan?  4 x ~$7 = $28.

 

On 3/18/2019 at 3:03 PM, gwri8 said:

Price + I've always been satisified with the quality of parts.

https://zcarsource.com/fusible-link-280z-75-78-brown-new-7557 

Got to agree with Greg @gwri8, even if this was not his thought pattern - Nissan is the OEM parts supplier -- Z Car Source and the other vendors, purchase from Nissan, and will sell Greg a set of fusible links, as well as Jon, Jane, and ... They will order a set of 10 to re-stock, (hopefully) ensuring the 'demand'. Once the demand decreases (and Nissan no longer stocks this part) the price goes up. Of course, this just my $0.02 that isn't worth a penny...

[Zed Head]

I wonder where Nissan was getting the red ones?  They don't seem to have a part number on them.  Anyway, good to be back to normal and verifiable.  All links should have a Nissan part number stamped on them.  The Atlanticz page still suggests that red is 069 mm^2 though, so beware.

The zcarsource pictures show a 1.0 link, not 1.25.  And orange 0.35.  They might get theirs from Japan but not necessarily from Nissan.  Plus they say that 1976 is the same as 77-78, which is not right (look at "Additional Information" on their page).

I'm just reacting to all of the words and pictures that are out there about fusible links.  Lots of variation and confusion.

https://zcarsource.com/fusible-link-cover-set-280z-76-78-new

[Joseph@TheZStore]

29 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

I wonder where Nissan was getting the red ones?  They don't seem to have a part number on them...

Our 78 in storage did have "Red" links. They have no discernible markings (or at least they don't any longer), and do appear "thicker" than the Brown links. Perhaps for a time Nissan bought them from another manufacturer? Hard to say. I don't know enough about the technology in the link to say for sure, but I wouldn't guess the thickness of the insulation HAS to determine the rating of the Fusible Link, so perhaps the Red ones Nissan sold for a few years were still the proper rating, just with thicker than .4 (Yazaki) insulation? Hope so, I'm sure there are still plenty of Red Fusible Links on 280Z's today.

[zspert]

Hi Joseph,

Like  you Banzai Motorworks catalogs fuse link info which we have gathered from one owner,  original,  unmodified, low mileage 280s which come through the shop with a bit of regularity. Therefore, I can say with confidence that the thick red links, surely manufactured by Yazaki, are original. Also, I've been buying those links from  my local Nissan dealer for more than 30 years. Original colors are Red, Green and Black. I feel comfortable with the super-sessions, such as thick Red to thin Brown,  through the years, never had a problem.

[Captain Obvious]

4 hours ago, Joseph@TheZStore said:

As far as the position of the 1.25 link on 77-78, we absolutely did take the positioning we showed directly from Nissan’s documentation, and are conferring with them and our own archived data about the error. I will be going today or tomorrow to access our stored 1978, and will respond to that part soon if there is anything worth adding

Hi @Joseph@TheZStore, Thanks for chiming in. I dug out my old 77 links and took a look at them as well. My findings are the same as yours... They are red, and they are thicker than the new brown links. I also believe they are from Yazaki, but are from the thicker FLWX series. The question remains "Why?", but I doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of that.

So how about the link positioning? Did your stored 1978 have the thicker black link towards the front of the car, or was it located towards the battery? Also, were the original label stickers on the link blocks still legible? I'm especially curious as I've been the one championing the "Nissan screwed up the positions in the documentation" argument. I'd hate to find out that I screwed that up and have been propagating mistaken info in some way.

Thanks again, and hoping you can add to the discussion.

[Joseph@TheZStore]

19 hours ago, zspert said:

Hi Joseph,

Like  you Banzai Motorworks catalogs fuse link info which we have gathered from one owner,  original,  unmodified, low mileage 280s which come through the shop with a bit of regularity. Therefore, I can say with confidence that the thick red links, surely manufactured by Yazaki, are original. Also, I've been buying those links from  my local Nissan dealer for more than 30 years. Original colors are Red, Green and Black. I feel comfortable with the super-sessions, such as thick Red to thin Brown,  through the years, never had a problem.

Granted, our oldest catalog going back to the early 80's still shows Red, but the FSM clearly shows Brown... Since Nissan has sent both "colors" to us over the decades for the same part numbers, hopefully we can assume both rate at 0.3 (like the FSM and Microfiche show), and the only difference was color and the thickness of the insulation.

If anybody still has a new genuine Nissan Red Fusible Link, it would be interesting to see the markings on the link. The Black and Green links Nissan sends do say "Yazaki" and "FLWX" on the link (which part shows varies per link). The Brown links Nissan now send say "FTX - 0.3", but not "Yazaki".

[Joseph@TheZStore]

On 3/14/2019 at 11:09 AM, Captain Obvious said:

...And here's a pic that (although it's hard to tell), you can actually see that one of the White/Red wires is larger than the other three. That's the position that gets the largest (black) fusible link. The W/R wire gauge is larger to account for the higher current that circuit can potentially carry. Who knows... Since the blocks are just screwed to the fender well, maybe some of them have been switched around? So if you're looking for a way to definitively determine which location gets the largest fusible link, you can check the wire gauge sizes:

 

FWIW, after looking at our 78, I can confirm what Captain said about the White/Red wire for the 1.25 Black Fusible Link being larger than the other 3 White/Red wires. Three of those White/Red wires were approximately 4 mm. One of them is approximately 4.5 mm, or about the same size as the White wires on the other sides of the Fusible Links (at least on this 78). Unfortunately there were no stickers left on these either.

The larger White/Red wire (assuming originality) would definitely be where the 1.25 Black Fusible Link goes, and on our 78 anyway, that wire was in the front, fender side position, matching what you all have shown.

So since we all know Nissan’s consistency over the years has been gray at times, and with some Z’s having been re-wired or re-harnessed, or possibly if the guy who had the car before you was ________ enough to cross things up, checking for the larger White/Red wire seems to be the best way that the average person should be able to confirm position of the 1.25 Black Fusible Link on their 77-78. Of course if they can check circuits and have a decent wiring diagram, then can confirm even farther.

As a vendor, we appreciate the checks and balances. Thanks to all.
 

[Captain Obvious]

Thanks for the additional info Joseph. Relieved to hear that I had not been spreading incorrect info about the link positions.

And I agree... I think either the color positions in the factory wiring diagrams was wrong from day one, or the workers on the assembly line put the link blocks in the wrong positions. But since we have seen the same positioning on five or six 77 and 78 cars, I think we can assume they were consistent.

Are you going to create a new picture for your website, or are you just going to recommend that customers confirm the position of the largest R/W wire and tell them to put the black link there?

[Zed Head]

19 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

And I agree... I think either the color positions in the factory wiring diagrams was wrong from day one,

 1976 doesn't even have the colors indicated.  They did change the wire colors though.  1978 is all W-WR through the links.  76 has only two white wires indicated.

[Joseph@TheZStore]

2 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

...Are you going to create a new picture for your website, or are you just going to recommend that customers confirm the position of the largest R/W wire and tell them to put the black link there?

Heading out for the night, so for the moment, just explanatory text, to try and keep it as uncomplicated as possible, for as many technical levels of customers as possible:
https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic12h01e/12-4334

If we do another diagram of sorts, I think an image would leave the least chance of confusion about angle of view, etc. Thoughts welcomed.

[EuroDat]

Hi Joseph,

The write-up on your site looks good, and clear so most will understand.

If we can determine the month when Nissan changed over to the three brown wires, that would help most people with the 76 model 280Z's. We all keep saying 76 and 77-78 model, but that could be interpreted as December - January.

All the information I read points to the change taking place in July - August.