Early 2+2's

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by Gav240z

First off Alan I found out about 2 different styles of Gnose through Kats. :classic: I'm puzzled though u say that so much of these cars history is misunderstood and ill informed yet you hold back information on the 2 variations??? Not having a go just find it a bit strange. (Yes it cool to know something others don't).

But I don't see a need to keep it stiched up from other Z enthusiasts :classic: . :ermm: :classic:

Gav,

I feel like I'm under "Friendly Fire"................

When did I "hold back" about the two different models of G-Nose? This is just something that I happen to know and I did not know anybody else was asking about it specifically. Mike ( Zedrally ) posted that his mate had told him about it and I mentioned back that I was surprised that somebody else knew about it. What's the problem? You never asked me a direct question about it did you? Did I miss a question or something? I could wax lyrical for ages about the differences between the genuine ZG and other models - but it'd have to be in response to a direct question, otherwise how would I know who wanted to know??????

If you perceive me as being a smug sod who likes to lord it over knowing stuff that other people might not know, then so be it. You may well be right. However - in my defence I might say that I've been partially pushed into a kind of seige mentality in an ( albeit hopeless ) stand against people who think they know everything and don't want to learn any more. I'm particularly talking about the Z scene here in the UK now. I've been somewhat marginalised by inverted snobbery and I've even had the indignity of having my car vandalised at a Z car show. That might show the kind of mentality that I've been up against over here.

I've had some of these people trying to poke holes in my car and spread rumours that its not even a "real" ZG ( like they would know how to tell....... ). To arm myself against this kind of thing, I've made a big effort to try to find out all I can. This was hard work. It took a great effort on my part and I had to do a lot of research. I didn't have it handed to me on a plate. If that tends to make me a bit precious with the info then I can't help my personality. But if anyone shows any REAL interest or thirst for knowledge about the things I'm interested in, then I will honestly do my very best to help out.

I've seen posts on other boards where people claim to have real ZGs - but its quite clear that they do not once you look at photos of them. I'm not going to go and burst their bubbles unless they ask me specifically about it. I have a good few reference points now on how to identify a real one, and the two different types of G-nose moulding is part of that information. I've had somebody here in the UK showing me a picture of the later type and telling me that my car cannot be a "real" ZG because it does not have the ducting in the picture. Seems like some people really would like to twist the knife.

I suppose its ultimately up to you what you think about me, but I'd prefer that you knew a bit more about what makes me tick before you had a go at me about something like that.

Taking criticism from someone who you respect is pretty hard, I must say.

Alan T.:disappoin

Christ, I even used a Smilie.............

[Zedrally]

Bit hard on Alan, aren't you Gav,

Unless I've missed something as well no one apart from myself asked about different g-nose versions, and even then I didn't specifically aske the question as I wasn't aware that there where different versions. Simply put, I was offered a garage full of datsun bits and a g-nose was amoungst it. Knowing the age of the owner and his rally history it was within the realms of possibility that some parts may have been "works" bits and asked Alan for advice.

I'm feeling sorry to Alan for being public on this, maybe in future we shouldn't discuss interesting "bits"of history, just PM between ourselves!

I really don't see what your problem is?

There isn't any secret agenda about penile extensions, just general discussions about some interesting possibilities.

Mike

[Alfadog]

Hooooold on a minute.

Trying to be as diplomatic as possible here. I think Gav may have said that not only because Alan didn't be exact on what the detail differences were, but also Mike (ZedRally) said earlier that he found out what the story was, and was going to PM Alan about it. And before that, you said "Oh damn, that info was in a PM and now it's public" regarding the fact that there were 2 versions of teh G-Nose car. I read that as in "I didnt want anyone else to know about it".

I thank you for telling the rest of us (who had shown an interest in the metal/fibreglass nose issue) after you had thought about it for a while. But this was after Gavin posted so I can understand how he may have felt a little left-out. Unfortunately on the Internet we cannot show how interested we are in a certain subject, and sometimes people may be very interested in learning, but becasue they have nothing to give they do not post. Unfortunately this can lead to the poster thinking no one is interested...

I agree that Alan is right in not posting a topic including everything he knows about everything (would probably overload the server) but in Gavin's defence one wouldn't really ask about how many versions of G-Nose there were (for example) unless one already knows or suspects that there would be more than one. The thought of more than 1 version never even crossed my mind, so I wouldn't think of asking about it. If you drift my catch?

In the end, I think what Gavin was feeling was that others here were left in the dark a bit in the details in general, and he's interested in whatever you both have to say.

Doing a bit of guesswork here, and hopefully I haven't offended anyone!!! I'm just trying to offer an explanation, no disrespect meant.

[Zedrally]

Alfa,

If you ask a question then you can expect an answer, what neither Alan or myself have is a crystal ball [workable, of course].

I'm the one who asked Alan if what I heard was true [2 G-nose varients] and Alan supplied the reply in a PM, if it's so upsetting to others then why not simply come out and ask what the answer is, instead of flaming Alan.

Now, I going to take an aspirin and go back to work.

Ha, 3 g-nose types......

[Alfadog]

I stated my opinion, but I will not argue. :classic: :tapemouth

(because it is not my argument)

[Gav240z]

You've got it all wrong I meant not disrespect. I thank Alfa for pointing out and interpreting what I was trying to say as his mostly correct.

Maybe it seemed a little harsh and I apologise for that it comes with inexperience and rushing to write a response while I should be doing work not typing on a forum.

I realise I had never asked the question about the Gnose variances. So I apologise I just felt that you had written two things that conflicted with each other.

You said that so much history of these cars is misunderstood and misinterpreted etc.. Then you said you thought you were the only person outside japan who knew about the 2 different Gnose's.

To me it was saying that you'd never shared this with anyone else and I couldn't see why you wouldn't if you are like me and believe these cars were underated underestimated and definately of a historic importance which I'm sure you agree with on all 3.

I do realise now that yes I never did ask the question and sometimes over the internet text that can be written in a sarcastic manner may not be interpreted that way later.

I tried to emphasise that with the use of the smilies.

I'm glad you respect me Alan because i have alot of respect for someone like you. Who has obviously taken it upon themselves to understand and know everything possible about these cars and put in the hard effort and deal with the f&^% heads out there who will do anything to belittle you.

I too have had my Z vandalised many of times. I've had a stone thrown at it when I took it to high school by a jealous sod. I've had my Mirror bent door keyed. Windows smashed from road rage which i suspect was a result of jealousy. I've had my 240z my new one reveresed into while I was at work had to replace entire bonnet. Then within a month the bumper is damaged.

So yes I understand what it would be like to have others do that to your baby especially from other Z owners who should know better.

I couldn't imagine contemplating doing that to a car like yours.

I hope we can try put this behind us as I value your contributions as well as friendship and lengthy well informed responses.

Sorry you took it this way.

Gav,

[HS30-H]

Mike ( Zedrally ),

I remain unconvinced that a Factory-built G-Nose was ever made in metal. I've spent a long time looking into the history and details of the HS30-H and all the Factory Homologated race body parts that were used, as well as some of the privateer team and semi-Works team efforts in Japan. I've never even heard a sniff of a metal G-Nose.

Some race body parts were made in aluminium ( especially for the PGC10 and KPGC10 Works race cars ), but hardly anything. It was a very skilled job to make them in small quantities ( as opposed to making press tools and stamping them out - which would have taken huge investment ). Nissan inherited some good connections from Prince, and one of them was a very good network of FRP specialists who were capable of limited-volume manufacture of the Sports Option FRP body parts for all the Nissan race cars and homologation specials. Nissan also had a fair bit of history with FRP of their own - dating from the late Fifties. It was quite logical for them to make stuff like the G-Nose panels from FRP - rather than metal ( either Aluminium or Steel ). They also had the connections to make Urethane and ABS body mouldings.

Your friend seems to think that the Factory G-Nose was metal ( he doesn't say what type of metal in his quote ) but he also seems to be talking about something that was not actually attached to a car when he was considering buying it. I have no idea what this was or where it came from - but it sounds as though it was in Australia. Now that its been mentioned it will plant a seed of doubt in some people's minds that it might be true, and that all the FRP G-Noses attached to the REAL ZG were somehow non-original or some kind of second generation.

He also states that many copies were made in FRP / GRP - and this is of course true. However, the discussion started out in relation to genuine Factory parts - so they are just a sidebar to the story. Maybe somebody made a G-Nose replica in metal ( that would have been quite a job ) but I don't think it was Nissan sanctioned.

Lots of cars tend to get labelled as "ZG" when they are in fact nothing of the sort. There's a big failing in the Z enthusiast community outside of Japan that this kind of thing is not more strictly policed. Simply bolting a replica G-Nose onto a Z does not make it a ZG, and come to that taking the genuine ZG nose and Overfenders off of a genuine ZG does not make it an "ordinary" Z again. Even attaching the genuine panels from a REAL ZG to a non ZG will not make it a real ZG. This has got to be quite clear.

Only the Factory could create a GENUINE HS30-H ZG. This is always quite clear in Japan - and if anyone tries to sell a car as a genuine ZG they have to make sure that it is indeed a real one. Most vendors that are selling a replica ZG or a Z with a G-Nose in Japan are very careful to make the point that it is not a real one. I can't imagine that in the Porsche enthusiast community a replica 911RS would be sold as a genuine car when it was quite clearly a replica; somebody would blow the whistle. Of course, fakes exist. However, passing something off as something it is not - and knowing this to be the case - is fraudulent.

I'm building a replica 432R at the moment, but simply installing an S20 engine and all the other detail parts ( and there are literally hundreds of differences ) will NOT make it a 432R. It was, and always will be, an S30 Z-L. I have to be very careful to try to make everyone understand that I am building a replica and not a fake, and try to make it quite clear every time the car is discussed. Even so, I have still heard third-hand gossip here in the UK that I am building a "fake" - as though I am trying to fool anyone that it is a real one. Its even been put into a magazine article without my prior knowledge ( it was photographed at the paint shop ) and captioned as the real thing. This is all very dangerous.

So if I seem overly pedantic about making the distinction between genuine Factory-built / sanctioned parts and the myriad aftermarket and 'replica' parts out there - then its true. I probably am. I can't see any other way to defend the real thing from the replicas and fakes.

What you believe is up to you, but I feel honour-bound to tell you what I know and hope that you will at least take his claim with a pinch of salt. Anecdotal evidence will not be enough to convince me - I would need to see documentary evidence that this existed and that it was made either by or for the Factory. If it wasn't, then it could be anything.

Alan T.

[Zedrally]

Originally posted by HS30-H

very big snip"

What you believe is up to you, but I feel honour-bound to tell you what I know and hope that you will at least take his claim with a pinch of salt. Anecdotal evidence will not be enough to convince me - I would need to see documentary evidence that this existed and that it was made either by or for the Factory. If it wasn't, then it could be anything.

Alan T.

Alan, without actual physical evidence, then no-one can say that it existed.

However, I feel that there must be sufficient doubt at this stage to completely rule out the story.

The statement that was made about not buying it because it wasn't complete indicates that there was something made in metal which the one armed man believes to be a g-nose.

It must have been an ad or something he saw or read that made him remember, after all we all have that repository of useless knowledge tucked away waiting for the right moment. If it was, then knowing him it will still exist, somewhere in his archives.

It up to him to establish the validity of this statement and I will remain on the case.

In the mean time let's both keep an open mind as it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

In one way I can't see why the G-nose couldn't pressed out, most all other body parts are, and if complex curves are needed then the assembly is made in pieces and assembled.

A good case for this would be the 2+2 that I would like to replicate.

If this was the prototype for what was to be the 2+2 then they would have needed to press the nose out to manufacture sufficient numbers, after all the bonnet is complex enough and it was pressed.

Anyway, enough of this grasping at straws so to speak, lets keep that open mind and await further developements.

Mike

[Zedrally]

At last remembered to get a snap of it.

[Gav240z]

So is this the famous metal Gnose? If so can I have one .

I really want a Gnose :classic:.

Hard to tell if it's metal from the pictures as it looks like there's a bit of white paint on it but I can see a metal like surface on the bottom piece.

Wonder what Alan will have to say about this?:tapemouth

[v12horse]

I was talking with a chap at the MSA show that had a 2 by 2 Fairlady (the picture of it is in my gallery), and he said that a real Nissan made g-nose has a hard rubber bumper with a metal insert to strengthen it. I felt the back of the one on Mr. K's car and he said that one was a real g-nose, and the bumper felt like it was verrrrry hard rubber with a metal insert in it. Is this accurate information?

-Ben

[sjcurtis]

Hi,

This is a good discussion on a great topic.

I agree with the 2 types of G nose theory,if we state " 2 types of GRP base G noses with Metal attach fittings and hardened rubber Bars. Both of these two basic Nissan items I would say could include radiator and ducting baffles/ guides and lower lip extenders as bit parts depending on application and source date.

To the "METAL G NOSE".

It could be said it does not exist, and after reading this thread with all the current wisdom available I would say never happened.

Reality: I trust my eyes when it comes to what I am looking at with fabricated metal structure. I have been scanning the YAHOO, JP sites for a while and on one such excursion to the pictures on a garage site. I came across pictures of a G NOSE sitting and obviously being sorted for a retro fitt to a Z or fairlady. there were about five diffrent shots of a green G nose with rust marks at the attach points probably from normal mating metal to metal.

I did not think to much of the marks, I just put it down to the metal fittings on the GRP. Another picture caught my eye.

"Fabrication"

What I saw was rivet lines and spot welds under the green paint locking the fabricated structure together forming all the channels and plated airflow direcion control surfaces internal.

I can say that the the internals were done in such away to suggest stamped metal fabrication of the small metal interconnecting parts welded or riveted together. The G nose appeared to be in very average condition. A lot of the fabrication was around the drop away for the brake cooling guides inner end. The flow charecteristic of this lower section was very standard single large area for radiator flow and brake cooling guides falling away to the rear on the extreme outside lower inner surface lh & rh.

This particular G nose although well weathered, appeared to be well engineered and fabricated, to much so for the aftermarket boys.

Yes I will take the hammering on this, because some idiot cant find the floppy I saved the pics too. Since this thread started I have tried numerous attempts to find that site again with no luck,

at least now you guys will keep your eyes open for it on YAHOO JP.

Not a complete metal nose set, metal in the internals of a lower section( possible grp outer).

Had to say something before the thread finished, the yeti is out there.

Steve

:classic: