contact cleaning?

[chaseincats]

So I recently went through the whole list of contacts to clean on the Atlantic Z page and noticed that after cleaning the fuel injection power fusible link (sanded then doused with Caig Deoxit) the starter sounds way beefier and the car starts up considerably faster.

The problem is that after the contact cleaner dries the car's starting speed/stronger starter sound reverts to how it was before.  Is there some sort of goop or product I can put on the contacts to permanently keep that great connection?

 

-chase

Edited May 4, 2019 by chaseincats

[Captain Obvious]

I don't think the contact cleaner drying out is what is causing the change. I think there's something else going on.

Are you sure something is really changing, or is possibly a placebo effect?

[chaseincats]

4 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

I don't think the contact cleaner drying out is what is causing the change. I think there's something else going on.

Are you sure something is really changing, or is possibly a placebo effect?

I've tried letting the car sit for days with and without a recent re-spray of the contacts and the start up time/stutter is definitely dramatically decreased when I respray it.  Would putting some dialectic grease in there help improve connectivity?

[grannyknot]

Dialectic grease as I understand it seals the contacts from further oxidation once the contacts are clean, it is not conductive itself.  You can use this stuff, a conductive graphite paste that increases surface area but it is only good on single circuit contacts like you are describing.  This paste is also excellent on freshly cleaned grounding contacts, battery terminals and such.

 Sounds to me like you have something else going on in the starter solenoid, there are 2 large copper contacts in there that need cleaning every 40 yrs or so.?

 

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by grannyknot

[chaseincats]

Gotcha, thanks for all the info, I'll go give the starter & solenoid terminals a look!

[chaseincats]

So I gave the ox-gard a shot and just like with the cleaning spray, it helped for a few days and now I'm back to the labored first start problem again (I also changed the plugs/wires to the proper NGK branded products but that didn't help either).

 

Here's where it gets interesting/possibly have a lead here.  I put a fuel pressure gauge just before the rail to see if maybe I was getting low pressure from the pump but within a second or two, pressure shot right up to the high 30s as it should.  I then capped off the fuel feed, then fuel return, and finally both hoses and noticed that overnight fuel pressure in the rail dropped to zero.  This means that one or all of my injectors leak fuel overnight, right?

Could the labored start be due to the cylinders having liquid fuel sitting in there?  It would explain why after the first labored start, the car starts up immediately as the liquid fuel has already been burned off.  If that's indeed the problem, short of buying all new injectors, is there something else I could do to work around the problem?

 

Any ideas?

-chase

[siteunseen]

Seems to me if you pulled the coil wire off the center of the distributor cap, disabling all spark to the plugs, and then tried a quick spin of the motor in the morning then pulled the plugs to see how wet they were? A simple way to test your suspicions I would think.

Editited after another thought;

Pull the plugs out and spin the motor to see if fuel spurts out?

Edited May 28, 2019 by siteunseen

[chaseincats]

4 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

Seems to me if you pulled the coil wire off the center of the distributor cap, disabling all spark to the plugs, and then tried a quick spin of the motor in the morning then pulled the plugs to see how wet they were? A simple way to test your suspicions I would think.

great idea, I will give that a shot and post my findings.

[chaseincats]

On 5/28/2019 at 4:30 PM, siteunseen said:

Seems to me if you pulled the coil wire off the center of the distributor cap, disabling all spark to the plugs, and then tried a quick spin of the motor in the morning then pulled the plugs to see how wet they were? A simple way to test your suspicions I would think.

Editited after another thought;

Pull the plugs out and spin the motor to see if fuel spurts out?

@siteunseen Gave it a shot and while the plugs mildly smell like gas, there wasn't any visible liquid gas sitting in the cylinders (although they were a bit shiny) so I guess that theory is out.  In retrospect, gas shouldn't be able to sit in the cylinders since the piston rings are a bit tired and let a mild amount of oil in the cylinders so whatever gas would be sitting in the cylinders probably drains down into the block lol.

 

Any ideas?  I'm scratching my head here...

 

Edit: I have no idea if this gives anyone any electrical hints, but the seatbelt buzzer has been beeping a about a 2x faster rate than before this problem started.  No idea if this gives any clues but thought I'd add it.

Also, the car after being started will only fast-idle to around 950 rpm instead of 1100 again, im not sure if this helps but figured id disclose it (that said it has been warming up here in texas so I'm not sure how affected the AAR is by that).

 

-chase

Edited May 30, 2019 by chaseincats

[Reptoid Overlords]

I believe if you have dish top pistons then it is possible for some fuel to sit at the top without making it past the rings. However, I'm sure the results you observed still indicate there wasn't any fuel, but it might still be good advice to have an assistant start the engine (or use a remote starter yourself), and look for fuel coming out of the empty spark plug holes.

 

Sent from my N9130 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[chaseincats]

49 minutes ago, Reptoid Overlords said:

I believe if you have dish top pistons then it is possible for some fuel to sit at the top without making it past the rings. However, I'm sure the results you observed still indicate there wasn't any fuel, but it might still be good advice to have an assistant start the engine (or use a remote starter yourself), and look for fuel coming out of the empty spark plug holes.

 

Sent from my N9130 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

If we now assume that fuel in the pistons isn't the issue, any ideas as to what else could be causing the slow first start but easy subsequent ones?

[Zed Head]

On 5/28/2019 at 1:27 PM, chaseincats said:

I then capped off the fuel feed, then fuel return, and finally both hoses and noticed that overnight fuel pressure in the rail dropped to zero.  This means that one or all of my injectors leak fuel overnight, right?

Could the labored start be due to the cylinders having liquid fuel sitting in there? 

Did you block the CSV?  Not really clear what "both hoses" means either.  Also, not clear what the problem is.  You mentioned a labored start, and a start up time/stutter, and a lower fast idle, but what would you like to be better?  You probably mentioned it in another thread, it seems like you've described it before.  Can't remember what car you have either.

I think that, generally, raw fuel in the intake manifold or cylinders will cause the engine to start up faster.  That's what the CSV is for, to squirt a load of raw fuel in to the manifold.  Might be that you have a weak spark problem instead.  Not sure.  Anyway, give fresh description of the problem and something might show.