1972 240Z Vintage Z Program Car up for Auction on BaT

[psdenno]

19 minutes ago, SpeedRoo said:

Not sure I understand how any factory can do a "factory restoration".

Allow me to help you understand how it happens in the case of Porsche Factory Restored cars.

https://www.porsche.com/international/accessoriesandservice/classic/factoryrestoration/

Let me know if you have questions.

Dennis

[SpeedRoo]

Thanks Dennis, interesting program. Just as I said, it is the Porsche owned classic restoration program, not done in the factory where they build cars but in their dedicated service/restoration shops. Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc all have similar programs. 

[HS30-H]

2 hours ago, SpeedRoo said:

The Z Store 240Z I want to know more about is the rarest one, number 38 of 37. The 240ZR as the Z Store likes to refer to it!

How is it "the rarest one"? It's an individual car - like they all are, given that they each have unique chassis prefix and body serial number - and the only difference is that it got a few additions and an extra nickname a good 20+ years after it left the production line. Since that nickname was not anything to do with the manufacturer and it was not an official series variant, it's hard to take it seriously as anything over and above any other car. 

'240ZR' was an internal Nissan race department soubriquet for a factory Works-prepped S30-series Z race car with an L24-based engine. What's the betting that the Z Store people didn't think about the name clash, or simply didn't know?   

[SpeedRoo]

47 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

How is it "the rarest one"? It's an individual car - like they all are, given that they each have unique chassis prefix and body serial number - and the only difference is that it got a few additions and an extra nickname a good 20+ years after it left the production line. Since that nickname was not anything to do with the manufacturer and it was not an official series variant, it's hard to take it seriously as anything over and above any other car. 

'240ZR' was an internal Nissan race department soubriquet for a factory Works-prepped S30-series Z race car with an L24-based engine. What's the betting that the Z Store people didn't think about the name clash, or simply didn't know?   

So let me get this right "No '240ZR' model was sold to the general public, but '240ZR' was the designation given to some of the factory Nissan 'Works' HS30 race cars". 

There's nothing in the chassis number to indicate these race cars are 240ZR; however the Z432R did have its own chassis number designation. Nissan insiders gave the 240ZR the designation, to some not all cars. Nissan in the USA, owned by Nissan Japan obviously, through their Z Store program built up the USA 240ZR and some insiders employed by Nissan gave it the designation. Am I missing anything?

Still makes it a rare car in my book, probably the rarest as Nissan quietly kept it under wraps and off the records.

[HS30-H]

10 hours ago, SpeedRoo said:

So let me get this right "No '240ZR' model was sold to the general public, but '240ZR' was the designation given to some of the factory Nissan 'Works' HS30 race cars". 

There's nothing in the chassis number to indicate these race cars are 240ZR; however the Z432R did have its own chassis number designation. Nissan insiders gave the 240ZR the designation, to some not all cars. Nissan in the USA, owned by Nissan Japan obviously, through their Z Store program built up the USA 240ZR and some insiders employed by Nissan gave it the designation. Am I missing anything?

Still makes it a rare car in my book, probably the rarest as Nissan quietly kept it under wraps and off the records.

Do you want me to cut-and-paste my reply from the other parallel thread you started? All of this is doing nothing good for the filing in the forum archives.
 

 

[kats]

On 7/21/2019 at 1:19 AM, HS30-H said:

Your 'S20-powered VZ' project might change a few minds. According to our new BaT friend 'Lstepp4re' apparently "....Here in the US we didn’t know of or care about JDM.. we knew about Datsun 240Zs that most of us couldn’t afford or acquire ..and as such ..99% of the people on this site ..just don’t care about the JDM market...".  He reminds me of somebody.

My personal favourite 'VZ' car? This one:

   

Thanks Alan , 

I feel more toward American people as I fell in love with my American 240Z . That was my very first experience and the passion for HLS30 is still glowing. I feel sometimes I am the only one who loves American 240Z deeply in Japan . ( yes the orange VZ’s owner Mr . Watanabe is exceptional )

So the  statement “99 % of people in the US doesn’t care about JDM S30 models “ seems to me correct and I can say 99% of people in Japan don’t care about the US 240Z , this is my feelings over twenty years of my experience.

But like me , if people in the US have a chance to see and get behind the wheel in a stock Z432 or 240ZG ( property maintained of course  ) , they will be delighted and opened their eyes widely for sure . Even L20 Fairlady Zs , will bring you some excitement not only just being RHD , they have different features in a cockpit, and exterior.

I have to find seriously of this red VZ which was sold to someone in Japan with a combo of Ferraris and some other marquees . I took some pictures of the car when I visit the show room in 1998 .

This car is almost perfect original condition, it seems only a few small things need to be replaced if I were the owner .The only big work would be applied to the radiator core support upper , around the hood stay clip area should be flat for the early cars like this HLS30-00630 . Up to mid 1970 ? Someone corrects me please .

By the way , I have four different Mr. Watanabe in my S30 friends . I am sorry if I make you confused.

Kats

 

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by kats

[grannyknot]

8 hours ago, kats said:

So the  statement “99 % of people in the US doesn’t care about JDM S30 models “ seems to me correct and I can say 99% of people in Japan don’t care about the US 240Z , this is my feelings over twenty years of my experience.

Kats, that may be true of guys from our generation but the younger guys I see at car shows are JDM crazy and when they get a chance to look over a 240z in person they really appreciate it, left hand drive JDM cars always have a crowd of young guys around them. There is hope yet.

[xs10shl]

On 7/21/2019 at 2:39 PM, SpeedRoo said:

So let me get this right "No '240ZR' model was sold to the general public, but '240ZR' was the designation given to some of the factory Nissan 'Works' HS30 race cars". 

There's nothing in the chassis number to indicate these race cars are 240ZR; however the Z432R did have its own chassis number designation. Nissan insiders gave the 240ZR the designation, to some not all cars. Nissan in the USA, owned by Nissan Japan obviously, through their Z Store program built up the USA 240ZR and some insiders employed by Nissan gave it the designation. Am I missing anything?

Still makes it a rare car in my book, probably the rarest as Nissan quietly kept it under wraps and off the records.

My own "theory" on the 240ZR is mostly based on my own, admittedly limited experience, and privately held understanding.  Clarifications are always welcomed and appreciated.

While it's true that the chassis number of a factory "ZR" does not exhibit a code signifying a "ZR" designation (that I've ever seen), one entirely significant differentiator that I'm aware of is that at least some (Most?/All?) factory "240ZR" cars will have an L24 installed in a hybrid/bespoke chassis, which for the sake of argument I'll call an "-R" chassis, because it bears a mild resemblance to the 432-R chassis - similar in some key ways, but also different in key ways. With this understanding, the presence of such an "-R" chassis in an S30 with a standard "S" or "HLS" stamped serial number would cause me (rightly or wrongly) to categorize that specific example as a "ZR".  The only thing I can add is that all the factory S30 Works cars that I've ever seen - maybe 6 or so (out of perhaps 50?) - are thus configured. Works cars of course have other key bits and pieces that one would not find on a street car or privateer car. 

What I'm unable to speak to is whether all L24-powered cars with the before-mentioned hybrid/bespoke "-R" chassis are Works or Works-prepped cars, or whether there are genuine "ZR" cars that are rightly called so, even though they have stock S30 production chassis. This knowledge would be above my pay grade.

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by xs10shl

[HS30-H]

On 7/22/2019 at 3:00 PM, kats said:

I feel more toward American people as I fell in love with my American 240Z . That was my very first experience and the passion for HLS30 is still glowing. I feel sometimes I am the only one who loves American 240Z deeply in Japan . ( yes the orange VZ’s owner Mr . Watanabe is exceptional )

So the  statement “99 % of people in the US doesn’t care about JDM S30 models “ seems to me correct and I can say 99% of people in Japan don’t care about the US 240Z , this is my feelings over twenty years of my experience.

But like me , if people in the US have a chance to see and get behind the wheel in a stock Z432 or 240ZG ( property maintained of course  ) , they will be delighted and opened their eyes widely for sure . Even L20 Fairlady Zs , will bring you some excitement not only just being RHD , they have different features in a cockpit, and exterior.

 

I think it is natural for people to have a bias toward their local market variants, and in pre-internet days not so many people got to see other market variants - so they didn't even consider them. What I do not understand are people who tell us not to look, or that a particular market/model is not worthy of attention. It is bizarre. Every variant has its own significance and the more contemporary variants you look at, the more you learn about them and your own market variant. There is always something to be learned.

I own variants from three different markets; Japan, UK and North American, and two different models from one of those markets (Japan). Each one informs not just about itself, but also teaches us something about the others. I find it fascinating to compare them, and I'm still learning something new every time. I contend that you cannot understand each model/variant fully without looking at its production line and showroom siblings.

It's a pipe dream, but I'd like to have an S30-series Z event where we managed to corral at least one of every variant/sub-variant and market model, and every different production spec and showed them all together in one space with full access. No velvet ropes around the cars and no cars locked. I think it would be both interesting and informative. Just a pipe dream though...

[kats]

On 7/23/2019 at 11:21 PM, HS30-H said:

I think it is natural for people to have a bias toward their local market variants, and in pre-internet days not so many people got to see other market variants - so they didn't even consider them. What I do not understand are people who tell us not to look, or that a particular market/model is not worthy of attention. It is bizarre. Every variant has its own significance and the more contemporary variants you look at, the more you learn about them and your own market variant. There is always something to be learned.

I own variants from three different markets; Japan, UK and North American, and two different models from one of those markets (Japan). Each one informs not just about itself, but also teaches us something about the others. I find it fascinating to compare them, and I'm still learning something new every time. I contend that you cannot understand each model/variant fully without looking at its production line and showroom siblings.

It's a pipe dream, but I'd like to have an S30-series Z event where we managed to corral at least one of every variant/sub-variant and market model, and every different production spec and showed them all together in one space with full access. No velvet ropes around the cars and no cars locked. I think it would be both interesting and informative. Just a pipe dream though...

Hi Alan , thank you so much.  I have nothing to add your words . And many people hit the  “ likes “  button,  it is a lot . 

My pipe dream is , based on yours , I wish we had a performance demonstration  (might  not really need to be competition) of each models in stock condition. ( We can’t ride on the old Bridgestone for the dynamic demonstration, so tires are OK for current model ) .

Use the data of magazines which they tested when Zs were sold to the public .In the demonstration  , a car must show what written in the magazine which was issued for the car’s destination .

It would be nice if we can share the experience of how each S30s behave . 

I am more interested in handlings, road holdings, distributer advance curve etc of the variants than that of appearance .

We have so many kinds of pairs of gearing in transmissions and rear differentials . 

A car is meant to be driven.

How about this , a competition for stock class is two- stage , the one is static display point . And the other is dynamic demonstration point . 

Kats

Edited July 27, 2019 by kats

[zspert]

I only had a chance to look at the BAT listing briefly before it was purchased. As is the case with so many of the BAT Z car listings,  many of the comments were from what I call "internet experts". We all know the type, had a Z for 6 months and are now one of the wanna be recognized experts. I get a call from one of these types from time to time. Anyway, getting off course. This car was from the first batch. I can tell because the air filter housing decals were painted around rather than replaced with my reproductions. Had their been pictures of the ID plates perhaps I could have pinned it down a bit tighter. It was mid/late in the first batch, all Pierre cars,  when Nissan started to use my products as well as the soft trim from Distinctive Industries. Sad thing about the early first batch, almost of the diamond pattern vinyl was reused as there just wasn't any left in the parts dept. It was about the time that the second batch cars got started that Nissan commissioned me to significantly expand my offerings. Second and final/third, batch cars had the full compliment  of my reproduction parts and DI soft trim which made them so much more desirable. The whole story is much broader than my musings here but it's late and I'm tired.      Cheers   PS While the DI Wilton Wool carpets aren't correct they sure are nice!