Timing chain guide

[Dave WM]

while checking the valve lash, I noticed my timing chain guide was fubar, it was way down and not in contact with the chain. I have the correct bolts on the thermostat housing, and I have no idea how long it has been like this. So the question is, do I pull the engine or fix it with the engine in place? It looks like I may have enough room to remove the cover and do the work after removing the rad, but I have the cherry picker, so was thinking just pull it and have easy access. I will know better what happened once I get it off, to see if there are any missing bolts etc.... that may be down in the crankcase. If that is the case I will have to pull it off as well. Come to think of it I seem to recall a "funny" noise somewhere in TN on my long trip heard it while at a fast food joint in the take out line, that since then has stopped, I bet it was the chain tensioner letting go, and then falling out of the way. I never gave it a lot of thought since it quieted down (I know that was a mistake) but since I was on the road I guess my judgment was impaired. Oh its the one on the non tensioner side (t stat housing side).

Edited September 27, 2019 by Dave WM

[siteunseen]

No contact on the tight side? Fubar is right! 

Good luck.

[Captain Obvious]

Wait.... Slow down.

Which guide are you talking about? The tight side (left) or the loose side (right)? If it was the tight side that came loose, you probably (maybe?) did not pop your tensioner.

Have you got any pics?

[Dave WM]

I kinda want to pull the engine just to try out the N42/MN47 head combo. I could even leave all the manifolds attached that way since the engine on the test stand is ready to go. Its been a while since I pulled the timing cover, IIRC I can leave the chain on, pull the harmonic balancer, the oil pump, the pump/dizzy drive shaft, then the water pump the forward bolts and the two head bolts on the front and it should come free, does that sound right? if that is the case I think I could just do it with the engine in the car. cant make up my mind on which way to go.

[Dave WM]

4 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Wait.... Slow down.

Which guide are you talking about? The tight side (left) or the loose side (right)? If it was the tight side that came loose, you probably (maybe?) did not pop your tensioner.

Have you got any pics?

tight side, without the tensioner I am sure the tensioner is working, I drove the car at least 600 miles since I heard the noise. side by the t stat housing.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Dave WM

[Captain Obvious]

1 minute ago, Dave WM said:

I kinda want to pull the engine just to try out the N42/MN47 head combo.

Well if you've got that as an option that you've been itching to try out, then go for it!

If you decide to look into the one that's on the car, then the procedure you outlined above looks pretty good. Only things I would change/remove are:

a) You don't have to pull the water pump off the timing cover. You can leave the pump attached and it will come off with the cover.
b) You will have to pull the oil pan bolts around the front of the engine that thread into the bottom of the timing cover.

[Captain Obvious]

So you're thinking that the guide bolts came completely out? Both of them, or just the top one? If it's just the top one, you might maybe possibly be able to put that back together from the topside by working down in the hole. If the old bolt fell down into the oil pan, it's unlikely to cause damage down there. It should sink like an anvil, and it's too big to get past the screen on the oil pump pickup. Just don't slip and drop a 10mm socket down there as well.  

On edit - I'm no engine expert, but my read on that left side guide is that it's there just to keep the chain from slapping around. Under normal circumstances, it doesn't even really contact the chain and doesn't add any tension. If you could get it back into place, it's not critical to get adjusted perfect.

However, if the lower bolt came out too, or is loose, you're fubar

Edited September 27, 2019 by Captain Obvious

[Dave WM]

roger. I think I will start with trying to remove in place, if it looks like a quick fix I will do that, if I see anything else or it get too tight a space I will pull the engine and maybe try the swap. I thought I had to remove at least a few of the long bolts on the WP

 

[Dave WM]

2 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

So you're thinking that the guide bolts came completely out? Both of them, or just the top one? If it's just the top one, you might maybe possibly be able to put that back together from the topside by working down in the hole. If the old bolt fell down into the oil pan, it's unlikely to cause damage down there. It should sink like an anvil, and it's too big to get past the screen on the oil pump pickup. Just don't slip and drop a 10mm socket down there as well.  

However, if the lower bolt came out too, or is loose, you're fubar.

The whole thing seems to be about 2" down, I will try to get a better look this weekend with the borescope. IIRC the top of the guide is near the bolt hole of the T stat front bolt. Its way below that now so I think both bolts must be out.

[Captain Obvious]

Here's a pic of what you're dealing with:

[Captain Obvious]

Here's another pic so you can see how far the guides go up into the head:

[Dave WM]

yea that looks doable with the engine it. I will have a condenser for the AC in the way, but with the rad out I think I can get at it. I get what you are saying about the pump. remove the bolts that go thru, but leave the pump attached to save the gasket.