280Z Requires Starting Fluid for Cold Starts

[S30Grit]

40 minutes ago, zclocks said:

Yep, I tested my new switch and it was a solid connection through the complete range of the "Start" portion of the switch. No sweet spot just continunity.

 

Awesome, thank you Ron

[Dave WM]

Pop for the NISSAN OE switch, about 40$ shipped IIRC, not the aftermarket one, they go for about 25$ shipped, not worth the savings.

[S30Grit]

welp ran through a few more things today.  I did mess around with the ignition switch, but I'm not sure it's the cause of my problems for two reasons.  The starter pin is is not continuous across the whole of the rotation through "Start", but it's consistently continuous towards the end of rotation, like the last 20% .  The ignition pin is working as expected, through "On" and all of rotation through "Start".

Either way, technically this should still work if I understand things correctly.  Even if I have to turn the key to the final 20% on Start, both Ignition and Starter lines are receiving battery power (as they consistently did in several repeated tests), the dang thing should start, right?  The only other variable is that testing the switch wasn't done under load.

^^ So that's the first reason I think it may not be the main cause.  The 2nd reason is that while trying to chase down a short in my Hazards circuit (ughhh), I came across a beautiful connector shown in the image, look at those colors (passenger side footwell under carpet). The one wire just fell right out of the connector... I haven't looked up what that specific harness is even for yet, but I'm expecting this and some other wiring fun to be related to the starting issue.  Most of the other harnesses I've inspected are no where near this bad thankfully.  But this isn't even mentioning some other wiring nightmares from what appears to be a 12 year old getting lose in this car hopped up on mountain dew and holding a pair of wire snips..

I may start another thread on some wiring questions, but I'm shocked the car even runs on starting fluid right now.  I found wires intentionally cut (1 major power wire it looks like), a couple harnesses not plugged in, and not to mention there's probably more corrosion lurking, even though I've been tackling it head on.. Rewiring the cut wires worries me the most, because I have no idea where they originally went or WHY they were cut ?‍♂️

[Zed Head]

I was going to mention this earlier.  Others have noticed that some ignition switches have a break between Run and Start and others don't, I think it was early compared later.  Can't remember which is which, old versus new, but I think that SteveJ @SteveJ dug in to a bit.  If I recall, it was decided that it din't really matter much.

Corroded connections can open up once current starts flowing and creates some heat.  You've found a potential cause for your problem, or a potential cause for some melted wires in the future.  Keep cleaning.

[Dave WM]

yep just keep cleaning, If you find anything at all like that in any of the EFI you will have problems. I assume you have taken a close look at all the injector/AFM/other sensors and looked for any blue/green stuff. It all needs to be clean. the thing about the early EFI is they are dumb in that there is no learning or compensation going on. It like wearing blind fold while some one guides you thru a maze. If the person yelling out directions is not optimal you will be banging into walls.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Dave WM

[S30Grit]

Yeah, I have cleaned all the sensor connections key to the EFI system.  Some definitely needed some attention.  A couple have broken tabs that likely need to be replaced, but I think it's only CSV and thermotine that are broken, so technically if those don't connect up perfectly, it should be fine for the short term at least (except for when CSV would be needed).

I drove it for the first time this weekend.  It seemed to get a little warm towards the end of a 20 minute drive, ~75F outside (of course I hit every red light and prob averaged like 10mph  #bayarea).  It took a while to get there, but at the end of the drive it was around 3/5 of the temp gauge.  Not boiling hot, but I'm assuming the car is supposed to be about 1/2 during normal op temp.

I've got a lot to do, big items are:

• Track down a short to ground in my hazards circuit... blinkers/hazards aren't working.  I saw there's some wiring that goes to the engine bay is wayyyy up in the dash.  No idea to get there yet, but would be great to check those connections.
• Trace down this starting issue, or I have an empty switch in my cabin that I could wire up to the starter instead of troubleshooting, which I'm tempted to do if all my wiring looks "fine"..
• She ran great response and had good pull up to around 3k or 3.5k, but after that she just seemed out of juice in each gear, barely gaining in revs, even with pedal to the floor (just testing). Wiring or AFM or something...
• One of the main fuse-box wires that goes straight to the battery (and has a fusible link) has a couple KOhm of resistance in it somewhere.. Prob another wiring issue there.

[Zed Head]

27 minutes ago, S30Grit said:

• She ran great response and had good pull up to around 3k or 3.5k, but after that she just seemed out of juice in each gear, barely gaining in revs, even with pedal to the floor (just testing). Wiring or AFM or something...

Check or recheck the TVS (AKA TPS).  You might be missing 27% of your enrichment.

[Zed Head]

Could also be retarded timing.  Make sure timing advances with RPM.  You can check that with a light, non-driving.

[Dave WM]

On hot running, put a thermometer in the rad, get a direct reading of the water temps. Start cold so you don't open a hot rad. start car. let idle, confirm reading on gauge to thermometer.

Mid range on gauge is 185f, just get it to that point and see what the thermometer says. IF its accurate then you have a problem. At 75f you should not go over 185f.

possible problems

1) bad or wrong T stat, beware, the bolts that hold the top cover on it can corrode and break upon removal. Don't go gorilla on it. If it does not want to come off you may need to heat them.

2) plugged rad (look at the tubes for build up on the inside by the neck)

3) low on coolant (incorrect burping of air may allow for poor flow or low coolant).

4) bad pump (can corroded and lose pumping ability)

5) Missing shroud (given the history it was prob "deleted" in some effort to go fast) This will show up when sitting in traffic, heats up, then temp drops once you are on your way.

6) bad fan clutch

7) slipping fan belt

8) badly plugged up engine cooling system from years of abuse

That's about all I can think of. If you have not already done this, at least check pump for lateral play in the shaft and/or weeping from the weep holes. grab the fan and try to shake it, some movement may be from the clutch, but if you think the pump shaft is moving, you should get a new pump. I would put a new pump in regardless unless I knew for sure when it was last done. And get one with a cast impeller not the stamped steel kind. I just like those better. Warning replacing the pump may result in BROKEN bolts, esp the 10mm  long one that goes into the engine block. I would research how to remove stuck bolts if it seems to resist at all. If you break that bolt the only cure is to remove the timing chain cover to get access and then its still not easy. The 3 long bolts on the water pump are what pull the TC case up tight against the water passages into the block, so you really want them all installed and torqued to spec.

 

A good general service maybe all you need if its running hot. Consist of

New pump

New T stat

flush, new coolant, new belts and hoses. maybe a new fan clutch if the old one is suspect at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Dave WM

[Dave WM]

here is a pump showing the 3 long bolts

 

[cgsheen1]

You can buy new connectors and pins from vintageconnections.com. You'll need a crimping tool and some patience but replacing those corroded spades will be much better than cleaning them. It's not hard to de-pin those connectors either...

[S30Grit]

Thanks for the info yall.  Hopefully the temperature thing is very simple and maybe just needs topped off and burped if I'm lucky.  I'll have to check the timing and TPS.  

I managed to find the short in my hazards circuit (fun), and circumventing that wire fixed the hazards.  It shorted somewhere under the steering wheel on the way to the hazards flasher unit from the fuse box, visually couldn't find any damage.  Unfortunately the turn signals still don't work, so I'll be looking into that next so I can at least test drive with some confidence of not getting pulled over.