Coil Pack Conversion - More Info Needed

[z32 fairlady]

I am currently looking into doing a distributorless, coil on plug conversion on my L24 engine.  I'd to gain an understanding of what parts were used in the conversion.  Are there any fabrication needs or any other "gotchas" I may not be aware of? I would think most if not all L-series, 6-cyl engines would fare similarly with compatibility.

There is no clear how-to online.  The goal is to end up with a setup with reliability and quality.  Part/model numbers are certainly appreciated.

Here are some of the links I've come acorss in researching -

• http://blakemachine.com/performance_parts_by_blake_machine/datsun_coil_on_plug_brackets_6__4_cylinder
• https://www.zcar.com/forum/10-70-83-tech-discussion-forum/277982-distributorless-setup.html
• https://www.zdriver.com/forums/280zx-s130-forums-77/distributorless-ignition-my-next-mega-squirt-project-39670/

[SteveJ]

What are you planning on using to trigger the spark?

You may want to create an account at hybridz.org and search there.

@madkaw has been running them. He might be able to give you insight.

[Zed Head]

"coil pack" usually refers to wasted spark.  Coil on plug is COP.  Both require their own ignition or engine management system.  Hybridz.org hs a few examples.

madkaw made his own trigger system.  He has studied the situation.  @madkaw

https://forums.hybridz.org/forum/94-engine-components/

https://forums.hybridz.org/forum/93-megasquirt/

[Patcon]

A lot of people have used megajolt for a stand alone ignition controller

[madkaw]

Well you’ll need a way to control the spark - ECU . Then you need a way to tell the ECU crank position . Then you can do what you want . The options are many .

 

[duffymahoney]

I have a blake coil bracket, brand new and a hoke crank trigger kit brand new I need to sell.  I have both tooth counts for it.  Either 60-2 or 36-1.  It's for a stock 240z dampener.  So most likely the one on your motor.  You would then need an ecu and the ford coils for it.  Pm me if you are interested.  

 

Haltech has a stand alone ecu for just the coils/ igition or edis6.  

Edited November 7, 2019 by duffymahoney

[Matthew Abate]

I am also in the beginning stages of doing this research and was planning to do some sort of write up on it. I just reached out to Wheee! and have been digging through Duffy’s thread to get started.

I think this thread is as good a place to compile notes as any. This is what I have gathered, plus contributions by @Zed Head, @duffymahoney, @wheee!, and @madkaw (please suggest edits as appropriate):

Benefits

• Better Performance? - Yes, in the form of hotter spark, less chance of misfire, more efficient combustion, and better emissions 
• Better power? - Maybe. Full control of timing in any load situation is a far and above the compromise of a dizzy - however it might be recurved.
• Lower cost? - Not initially, but parts are easier to find that the original setup once a system is in place.
• Tunable? - Yes. Programmable ignition curves allow you to optimize for power and efficiency.

Required Components

• Coils (6)
• Spark Plugs (6)
• Coil Bracket
• Camshaft Triggering Device / Position Sensor / Angle Sensor
• Crankshaft Triggering Device / Position Sensor / Angle Sensor
• Ignition Control Unit / Module
• Battery
• Wiring Harness
• Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor
• Tachometer Signal Converter

Considerations

• Cost - Is the cost of the system worth the benefits for your car vs OEM parts or other options?
• Availability - Can you find replacement components to get your build finished and keep it working?
• Difficulty - Will you need to have help getting it installed, tuned, and keep it working?
• Appearance - Which of each component is right for your build style?
• Heat - How will heat be managed to ensure proper function and longevity?
• Positioning - How will you route the wiring through firewall and what mounting points will work for each component?
• Accessories - Will you be running AC, the headlight relay harness, non-original alternator, other hard-wired electronics, etc.?

Glossary

• Smart Coils (from AEM Performance Electronics)
  • “Smart” Inductive Coils are designed for use on applications that do not have an external igniter.
• Wasted Spark (from Wikipedia)
  • In a wasted spark system, the spark plugs fire in pairs, with one plug in a cylinder on its compression stroke and the other plug in a cylinder on its exhaust stroke. The extra spark during the exhaust stroke has no effect and is thus "wasted". This design halves the number of components necessary in a typical ignition system, while the extra spark, against much reduced dielectric resistance, barely impacts the lifespan of modern ignition components. In a typical engine, it requires only about 2–3 kV to fire the cylinder on its exhaust stroke. The remaining coil energy is available to fire the spark plug in the cylinder on its compression stroke (typically about 8 to 12 kV).

  • “If you're running a wasted spark system, you don't need cam sensor.

    Two pistons will be approaching TDC at the same time. Of the pair, one of the rising pistons is approaching TDC on it's compression stroke, and the other one is approaching TDC on it's exhaust stroke. A cam sensor would allow you to differentiate between those two, but if you're running a wasted spark system, you don't care... Just spark both of them at the same time.

    If you had a cam sensor, you could spark just the cylinder on it's compression stroke alone without "wasting" a spark on the other cylinder.” - Captain Obvious

COMPONENTS: COILS

ACDelco D585

Nissan R35

 

COMPONENTS: COIL BRACKETS

Blake Machine Co.

• http://blakemachine.com/performance_parts_by_blake_machine/datsun_coil_on_plug_brackets_6__4_cylinder

List of Options for Crank and Cam Position Sensors @ Hybrids -https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/126710-list-of-options-for-crank-and-cam-position-sensors/

COMPONENTS: CAMSHAFT ANGLE SENSOR

Jeep 4.0 CAS in stock distributor location

• https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/125904-jeep-cam-angle-sensor-for-l-series/

1998 Nissan Quest (PN: 22100-P8500)

• https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/58568-duffys-171-series-1-240z-build/?page=19&tab=comments#comment-582356

 

COMPONENTS: CRANKSHAFT ANGLE SENSOR

1982-83 280ZXT distributor with DIYautotune wheel

• XXX

Austin Hoke Bolt-in-Kit

• http://hokeperformance.squarespace.com/l-series-crank-angle-sensor
• https://hokeperformance.squarespace.com/store/l-series-crank-angle-sensor-kit

BJH Dynamics / Robello Racing

• XXX

Damper-mounted universal or OEM trigger wheel

• XXX

Flywheel Hall Sensor

• XXX

Top End Performance Trigger Wheel fab Service

• XXX

 

COMPONENTS: ECU

Crane:

Electromotive:

Haltech:

• https://www.haltech.com/

MSD:
Megajolt:

• https://www.autosportlabs.com/the-new-megajolte-mk2-is-here/
• https://www.mgexp.com/article/mgb-edis-installation.html
• https://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/p72.html

Edited December 1, 2019 by Matthew Abate

[Zed Head]

8 hours ago, Matthew Abate said:

Required Components

•  
• Camshaft Triggering Device / Position Sensor / Angle Sensor
• Crankshaft Triggering Device / Position Sensor / Angle Sensor
•  

Glossary

• Sequential Ignition (from Wikipedia)
  • …systems can be sequential, in which injection is timed to coincide with each cylinder's intake stroke; batched, in which fuel is injected to the cylinders in groups, without precise synchronization to any particular cylinder's intake stroke; or simultaneous, in which fuel is injected at the same time to all the cylinders.
•  

You're combining injection control with ignition control in your post.  That is full "engine management".  More than the topic.  Patcon was right, Megajolt is a basic ignition control system. 

The other advantage is programmable ignition curves.  Optimizing for power and efficiency.

[Zed Head]

https://www.autosportlabs.com/the-new-megajolte-mk2-is-here/

https://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/p72.html

https://www.mgexp.com/article/mgb-edis-installation.html

Edited November 10, 2019 by Zed Head

[Matthew Abate]

Thanks @Zed Head I’ll get those edits in.

If everyone else could make recommendations on components or provide links to how-tos or instructions I would appreciate it.

I’m starting to dig into Hybridz right now and plan to transpose what I find into the above post.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Matthew Abate

[madkaw]

I would argue the statement of probably not better power . Timing control is a big part of these motors . To have full control of timing in any load situation is a far and above the compromise of a dizzy - however it might be recurved . 
I think it’s safe to say power improvements are about guaranteed . 
 

Cam sensor is nice , but not necessary . I’ve run years without it . 

[Matthew Abate]

18 minutes ago, madkaw said:

I would argue the statement of probably not better power . Timing control is a big part of these motors . To have full control of timing in any load situation is a far and above the compromise of a dizzy - however it might be recurved . 
I think it’s safe to say power improvements are about guaranteed.

Awesome! That’s what I like to hear.

I don’t suppose you can put any numbers on it. Any chance you have a link to dyno charts for comparison?

Regarding cam sensor, I had read somewhere (Duffy’s thread?) that the crank sensor doesn’t tell you which of the strokes you are on, so pairing the two gives you that plus accuracy. I’m paraphrasing big time here.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Matthew Abate