Are early gas tank vent systems simpler?

[Victor Laury]

Your car once had the recovery tank. Look at your first photo. You'll see two mouting bosses that have been bent back, and two hose straps between them. those mounting holes were for the tank. Are those vent hoses the original Nissan with cloth woven covers? If not, a good indication that the area has been reworked.

[26th-Z]

Yea, me too, Bambikiller. I doubt it has been hacked. In 1968, the Feds passed the "Evaporative Emmissions Control Act" and all cars had to have a recovery system according my Datsunmeister. Our cars should have had something. I plan to see Carl on 20 June and will consult with his meistership on the subject. I will also see Jim Frederick and will be able to ask his meistership. I will capture a photo opp if I get the chance.

[mdbrandy]

Originally posted by Victor Laury

Your car once had the recovery tank. Look at your first photo. You'll see two mouting bosses that have been bent back, and two hose straps between them. those mounting holes were for the tank. Are those vent hoses the original Nissan with cloth woven covers? If not, a good indication that the area has been reworked.

It looks to me like the car was set up to have the vent system. The screw holes for the vent tank are there. There is an extra factory hole through the wheel well that there is nothing going through (and no plug). There are a number of plastic covered retainers that are not used. HOWEVER, there are these sorts of things throughout the car. Unused screw holes and retaining fingers that look like they were never used. This car apparently didn't have much in the way of extras. Not even a rear window defogger grid. It is easy to believe that Datsun was preparing to put a vent system in, but wasn't ready when the initial cars rolled off the line. As to the hoses, the one coming up from the tank to the filler tube is original (woven cover), but the one coming from it and going through the wheel well is not. I would agree with you if it were not for the gas tank itself. It COULD have been replaced with a version with no vent tubes, but where would it have been obtained if no Z ever had one? There is no evidence of cutoff/welding on the tank, and why would someone do that anyway? Just cap the vents. Anyway, 26th-Z is going to talk to Carl Beck and we will see what he knows. I think the jury is still out...

[26th-Z]

Carl Beck wrote me this morning with this comment:

That is correct. Emissions Standards are implemented by the US on an

"as of" date. They then apply to any car produced "as of" that date.

The evaporative emission controls were not required by the US until 1

Jan. 1970. None the less Nissan intended to sell the 240-Z's as 1970

Model Year vehicles here in the US. So they started equipping cars

ahead of 1 Jan. 1970 - but they had limited supply to begin with and

only part of the cars coming to the US, built in 1969 were equipped

with the vapor recovery tanks ( none of the 69 production cars that

went to Canada had them and most didn't even have air pumps)

[mdbrandy]

Ah, so the verdict is in! Thank Carl for the info - the only way to put a vent system on mine would be to get a new gas tank, and I really didn't want to do that!

Thanks for tracking this down Chris!

[Bambikiller240]

That is what I thought. I knew I had read of it somewhere but could not find the reference. Mystery solved!

[HS30-H]

Please excuse me for chiming in here. I hope you don't mind.

I just wanted to point out that all that extra emission control equipment was never fitted to a lot of the other ( non-USA ) market cars until at least 1973. Quite simply, the petrol tanks vented to air.

I did note that the main part of your discussion was with regard to whether the very earliest USA-market cars had the extra equipment or not. I am no expert on the USA-market cars, but I do know a fair bit ( I think ) about the Japanese home market in particular. I can tell you that right from the very first deliveries of S30 and PS30 models, through late 1971 and the release of the HS30 models, and on until well into 1973 - the Japanese market cars had no vapour recovery tanks. As far as I am aware, the UK-market cars did not have them either.

Seems that the USA ( and California in particular ) was in the forefront of clean air legislation as applied to automobiles.

Looking at it from an outsider's point of view, it seems to me that discussions regarding the details of early HLS30 models can sometimes appear blinkered to the fact that there were OTHER models of S30-series Z in production at the same time. And yes - I mean right from the very first days of production in late 1969. By all accounts ( and I have spoken to guys who were working at Nissan in late 1969 - both on the assembly lines and in sub-assembly and parts supply ) the first few months of production were pretty chaotic to say the least. Some of these guys remember some really daffy things happening - like VIN number prefixes being overstamped, and cars being disassembled in quality control and the parts being 'recycled' back to the beginning of the production line.

In the light of this, I don't think its very surprising that there was at least a very strong potential for anomalies and just plain weird things to occur. Having said that, the USA-market HLS30 models ( as opposed to the non USA-market HLS30 models ) seem to be the most faithful in conformity to type and specification out of all the models of early Z car. I guess it could be supposed that a little extra care might have been taken with Export models, to make sure that there were no problems caused by freak spec. changes. This would certainly make sense. Anyway, the point is that I don't know anybody amongst the Japanese Z enthusiasts that I know ( some of them having been involved in building the cars at the Factory or selling them when they were new ) who thinks that Nissan stuck to specs. and types 100% faithfully during the production of the cars. This makes me think that the USA-market HLS30 cars were also subject to the odd black sheep or Friday Night Special. I think that they were, however, at least the more faithful of the models to leave the Factory.

What I'm getting at ( or trying to, anyway:ermm:) is that it seems to me that the USA has a tendency to think of the very earliest HLS30 models as the FIRST cars on the production lines. This is patently not true, as there were S30 and PS30 models in production alongside them. Arguing which was 'first' is probably pointless ( I think that's a stone which this David would have trouble hitting Goliath with!...... ) - so I won't go there unless I have reinforcements behind me.

So if you consider that other models with DIFFERENT specs. to the HLS30 were also in series production ALONGSIDE the HLS30, and take into account that the first few days / weeks / months of production were fairly rushed and a little unfocused, then it would not be any surprise that the odd anomaly got through - such as an HLS30 without the vapour recovery tank, or with an unheated ( base model S30-S ) rear screen.

I don't really intend to be all preachy about it, but I DO think its worth keeping in mind that 'other' market spec. DNA could have accidentally been spilled into the USA-market HLS30 gene pool by mistake or force majeure.

Alan T:classic:

[mdbrandy]

I'm glad to take in any and all historical info that I can at this point (i.e., you're certainly excused for chiming in!). I've owned this car only about 30 days or so right now, and I'm early in the throws of trying to figure out what I need to do. The reason(s) for many of my posts here are because I want to restore the car to close to what it started out to be without going nuts. If it had a vapor system on it, then I'd try to put one back. As it is, it appears that it didn't have one. So I don't have to :classic: .

It would be interesting if non-USA market "stuff" made it's way into a US market car - especially if it was the lack of required emissions stuff. Carl answered that since it wasn't "required" here (US) until January 1970. I don't know much of anything about cars in other markets (what I do know, I've learned in the last month on this site!), but it's interesting to learn. I loved all the pics you took in Japan and posted (thanks!).

Lots to learn, lots to learn...

[Bambikiller240]

Yeah, Thanks for chiming in Alan! Alway enjoy reading the "tidbits" that you share with us. A fresh ( non-USA) perspective makes for a facinating read.

[HS30-H]

:classic:

Alan T.

[26th-Z]

I learned a quite a bit from this discussion - my tank and vent system will be coming out this summer. It will be interesting to see what I have in 26.

[owenk]

Originally posted by 26th-Z

I learned a quite a bit from this discussion - my tank and vent system will be coming out this summer. It will be interesting to see what I have in 26.

Are you putting in a fuel cell?