FS5W71B Rebuild Thread - Tips tricks and discoveries!

[zKars]

The Nissan bearing is actually a light press fit. You can't push it through with your hand, but a very light rubber hammer can tap it through, if you keep it square to the bore. 

Remember when you put the case back on over the bearings they have to fit "just so", to allow them to be both properly and snugly located, and loose enough to allow you to push the case over them without a big hammer.

I'll have to practice to see if the bearing will press through easily with the push from the mill quill or if it hangs up. Being a bearing, the middle will rotate with the cutter head, the OD will just be a stationary guide that gets pressed through.

All has to be pretty smooth to feed the cutter down with good control and slow smooth action. Might have to sand just a tiny bit off the bearing OD to get a slightly looser fit.

Capt'n is saying "just center the dang cutter over the hole with the Co-ax like we talked about and stop getting fancy!" but I have fear I haven't tested yet. With working down inside the bell housing, both seeing the dial gauge and swapping from the center finder to the cutter head may prove to be a challenge given the constraints of quill plunge depth (5"), different mandrels lengths on the two things, and clearance/vision.

One thing I haven't said is my mill is more of a very heavy duty drill press. The one thing I can't do with it is move the entire head up or down in perfect straight line. The head, once you back off the lock down to allow it be moved up or down, can rotate on the column very easily, so there is no simple way of keeping the exact X/Y location. I have to work within the 5" quill plunge to get everything done.

Should be playing this game today. Will take some pics and let you know how it goes. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by zKars

[siteunseen]

13 hours ago, Zed Head said:

Does the shifter that didn't work have a mark/notch on the back where it was impacting the case?  I had a 76 4 speed shifter that worked on a 76, 78, 81, and 83 transmission.  Just trying to understand, doesn't make sense.  siteunseen took a grinder to his shifter and made it work better.  @siteunseen

 

[Zed Head]

52 minutes ago, zKars said:

The Nissan bearing is actually a light press fit. You can't push it through with your hand, but a very light rubber hammer can tap it through, if you keep it square to the bore. 

I meant the balls in the races.  The play between the inner race and the outer race.  

You'll be using the outer race for location but the inner race to support the cutter head.  Any play in the bearing itself will affect cutter head location.

Might be better off to cut a plug that fits the 56 mm bore then cut a hole in it.  Convert the Nissan ball bearing to a bushing.  Get rid of the balls.  Not sure but I think that somebody might have inferred that already...

Or...I just didn't comprehend what's going on.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Zed Head

[zKars]

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

I meant the balls in the races.  The play between the inner race and the outer race.  

You'll be using the outer race for location but the inner race to support the cutter head.  Any play in the bearing itself will affect cutter head location.

Might be better off to cut a plug that fits the 56 mm bore then cut a hole in it.  Convert the Nissan ball bearing to a bushing.  Get rid of the balls.  Not sure but I think that somebody might have inferred that already...

Or...I just didn't comprehend what's going on.

It is foolish to assume the balls have no play, very good point. I shall measure a fresh and old one and see what deflection I find. 

[gundee]

21 hours ago, zKars said:

And some good news tonight about the issue that started this thread, the trans that wouldn’t shift into 5th.

It was in fact the ‘wrong’ shifter. What worked was a shifter from a zx, the one that has the spring loaded center and flat face bushings. The one on the left.

I think I mentioned this before in another thread. I had this issue with 5th gear when I installed a 280Z 5 speed in my 72. Tried other shifters

but still the same. Then I learned that there is a 280Z shifter that has the shorter end like the 280ZX shifter shown.

After installing that it was perfect. No grinding a notch  needed. See if I can find my photo of it.

[Captain Obvious]

So this welded cutter you talked about... You're not using a boring bar in a boring head? In your close-up pic, that's what it looks like. But surely you're not thinking of welding the bar INTO the boring head, are you? I was being sarcastic above, but now that you brought it up again, I'm wondering if you're serious, or I'm simply confused as to what your cutter consists of.

9 hours ago, zKars said:

One thing I haven't said is my mill is more of a very heavy duty drill press. The one thing I can't do with it is move the entire head up or down in perfect straight line. The head, once you back off the lock down to allow it be moved up or down, can rotate on the column very easily, so there is no simple way of keeping the exact X/Y location. I have to work within the 5" quill plunge to get everything done.

So you got a mill-drill. We're not judging. I was going to ask before, but thought you had set-up worked out... Can you mount the bell housing trans side up so the hole you want to bore is closer to the head? Or is the bell then too large to get enough clamps on it to lock it to the table? If you can mount it that way, you'd have no problems with Z travel length.

11 hours ago, zKars said:

Thinking back to Philip's early idea of a dual concentric hole cutter, the inner one guiding the outer cutter by riding in the existing hole,

They call that "piloted" as in you're using a "piloted cutter". Not uncommon, and a good way to achieve higher accuracy, especially in flexible set-ups.

[240260280]

4 pic's from @Carl Beck's website showing bell housing on lathe for 240sx transmission mod.

  

[zKars]

Ok, got a part today that is good news and confirms shift fork compatibility AND availability. One more Fs5W71B saved from the scrap heap.

32811-58S10 is the 3/4 shift fork from a Fs5W71C transmission. It is a usable replacement for both the 1-2 and 3-4 shift fork in FS5W71B with aluminum forks, and would also replace the 4 sp version metal forks. 

One tiny snag. The roll pin hole in the C and B type 5sp forks are larger than the 4 sp forks. If you break a 4 sp fork, you will need to drill the rod roll pine hole out to 0.195 or 15/64. A number 8 drill bit is good enough.

Let me also repeat that the C type 1-2 shift fork will NOT WORK in the B types, it fits a larger diameter selector ring.

Edited December 21, 2019 by zKars
Incorrect roll pin hole size

[zKars]

Sorry about the lack of updates, but Christmas and family stuff keeps getting in the way. Still haven't tried my hand at making a 62 mm hole out of a 56mm hole. 

Received the BK104WS trans rebuild kit from transmissionpartsdistributors.com today, finally.

Got to say first their customer service is poor. Actually totally lacking. tracking showed they made the label on Dec 8th 2 days after I put the order in, then nothing changed on tracking until the 21, when it actually shipped, and got here on the 24th! (just now). USPS/Canada Post rocks to do this in three days at this time of year. I emailed once and phoned once during the Dec 8-21 gap and never received an email or phone call back. Chances are they were waiting for parts to come in from somewhere. Would have been nice to let me know that.

But the thing showed up.

And the contents are EXACTLY the same, part for part, as what I received from drivetrain.com. 

Only difference is the price. $135 from drivetrain, $78 from transmissionpartsdistributors. Both identical $40 shipping fee. So if you have 3 weeks to wait, then TPD is the obvious choice of vendor.

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by zKars

[zKars]

And while I'm thinking about it....

I mentioned earlier about the possible wisdom of put the 62mm front counter shaft bearing in your FS5W71B transmission.

I must mention that it will then require two additional items other than the bearing.

The front cover plate for the C trans must be used as the recess in the back is sized for the larger bearing.

 It ain't cheap either. $99 from 

https://www.transmissionpartsdistributors.com/fs5w71-series-transmission-front-bearing-retainer-original-equipment-fits-nissan-84-4-cyl-cars-trucks/

Aha! they have an aftermarket one as well, cheap.

Sure, an ambitious (cheap?) guy could hog out the cover to fit the larger bearing too...

This also means you will need a bearing shim for the C trans as well. Different thicknesses are available.

 

There is also a tiny detail about the C bearing being 17mm thick vs the B bearing being 16mm thick. Some case material may have to be removed around the bearing just like you do with a full C type conversion, maybe somewhat less. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by zKars

[Zed Head]

That picture shows how the clutch fork pivot ball mounting hole is a through-hole to the oil containing area.  It can leak if you don't seal it.

Just adding...

[zKars]

And while I'm thinking about it....

I mentioned earlier about the possible wisdom of put the 62mm front counter shaft bearing in your FS5W71B transmission.

I must mention that it will then require two additional items other than the bearing.

The front cover plate for the C trans must be used as the recess in the back is sized for the larger bearing.

 It ain't cheap either. $99 from 

https://www.transmissionpartsdistributors.com/fs5w71-series-transmission-front-bearing-retainer-original-equipment-fits-nissan-84-4-cyl-cars-trucks/

This also means you will need a bearing shim for the C trans as well. Different thicknesses are available.

 

There is also a tiny detail about the C bearing being 17mm thick vs the B bearing being 16mm thick. Some case material may have to be removed around the bearing just like you do with a full C type conversion, maybe somewhat less.