Mint '71 240Z - More Fun Coming to BaT

[gundee]

Well this is a very early 1972 near me. It even has the vertical rear defrost from the 71Z.

And it only has 2,600 miles on it. Makes the subject 71 green Z look kind of long in the tooth.

Only downside I see is that it is an automatic trans. And brown in color.

[HS30-H]

6 hours ago, Gav240z said:

Interesting, I always thought Air Con was an after thought on early S30Z's which was later revised in 1974 with later style dashboard change. Hence why so many had "dealer" optioned aircon, but it appears it was a consideration from the beginning perhaps?

I think you've mention in the past that some HS30-H's had special aircon ducting up front in the Gnose portion of the nose. Was there a factory fitted Air Con set up? Any photos of it?

Fully integrated factory air conditioning was part of the 'original' design for the S30-series Z.

There's a chapter on the system in the November 1969-dated Nissan 'Service Shuho' booklet. Here are scans of some selected pages:

But.... "Designed For USA" / "Made For USA", right....?

[Patcon]

Rotary compressor

Lots of vacuum tubing, it looks like

and wouldn't install on a LH drive car based on the way it's drawn...

[Gav240z]

3 hours ago, HS30-H said:

But.... "Designed For USA" / "Made For USA", right....?

I can't like your post because this site throttles how much I can like stuff ;).

I have actually seen this panel before in a Fairlady Z that Hung had, I will ask him for photos of it again. I had never seen it before. He said it was factory air-con and I was skeptical because I'd never seen it in a '240z' before.

Certainly feel it's almost a necessity in today's summer climates.

[HS30-H]

38 minutes ago, Patcon said:

Rotary compressor

Lots of vacuum tubing, it looks like

and wouldn't install on a LH drive car based on the way it's drawn...

Charles,

It's the RHD-specific layout as fitted to RHD production cars. Since the RHD heater/blower system (including the 'chimney' air inlet in the lower cowl part of the bodyshell) is RHD-specific and will not fit/work in LHD layout, it stands to reason that an LHD-specific version of factory aircon would be designed to fit the LHD layout. I can't show you a picture of an LHD-specific version because an LHD-specific version never made it to production in 1969... 

My point about the nascent air-con hose cut-outs in the firewall jute pad of the green BaT car is that - I'm willing to bet - they indicate that LHD-specific factory aircon must have been on the cards until quite late in the design/engineering processes. If not, why include the cut-out templates in the LHD-specific (it won't fit RHD) firewall jute pad?

We know that there was a certain amount of de-contenting of the very first deliveries to North America, and - granted - some of the details will have been regarded as 'won't be missed', 'not necessary' or 'too expensive'. I believe there was a Tug-O'-War going on between NMC USA and NMC Japan over how to keep costs down whilst still making profit with a very competitive selling price. There were also - clearly - efforts made to simplify options and limit differences to the U/N/V variants which would help to maximise daily production volumes. I think factory aircon for North American market variants was a victim of all this.

The wider point is that all the 'Made For USA' and 'Designed for USA' talk is not the whole story. Anybody who looks at these cars closely enough must realise that 'Made for Japan' and 'Designed for Japan' also happened, and so did made/designed for Australia, NZ, NL, Belgium, France, Germany, Portugal, UK, Scandinavia and others.  S30, PS30, PS30-SB, HS30, HS30U, HLS30, HLS30U/UN/UV were all designed/engineered at the same time. That's why Nissan called it the 'S30-Series' at launch. It's a family.   

[26th-Z]

You make a number of good points, Alan.  How ironic then, that Datsun dealers tended to prepare their cars with a number of various options, adding cost, and STILL couldn't keep up with demand.  If nothing more, I would contend that Nissan really missed their projections of sales.

[SpeedRoo]

1 hour ago, Gav240z said:

I can't like your post because this site throttles how much I can like stuff ;).

I have actually seen this panel before in a Fairlady Z that Hung had, I will ask him for photos of it again. I had never seen it before. He said it was factory air-con and I was skeptical because I'd never seen it in a '240z' before.

Certainly feel it's almost a necessity in today's summer climates.

Here's the setup in a L20 Japanese delivered S30.

[240260280]

It is most likely that the USA requirement for emissions caused the planned 1969 AC in that location to be replaced by the smog pump. This would have mooted the AC location quite quickly.

My 77 with EFI (and no smog pump) has similar AC hose routing and similar compressor location as the 1969.

 

Here is the same 1969 locations feeding the AC in a USA 280z

Edited January 31, 2020 by 240260280

[HS30-H]

51 minutes ago, 26th-Z said:

You make a number of good points, Alan.  How ironic then, that Datsun dealers tended to prepare their cars with a number of various options, adding cost, and STILL couldn't keep up with demand.  If nothing more, I would contend that Nissan really missed their projections of sales.

I've long wondered - when all overheads were factored in - just how much Nissan made on each HLS30U/UN/UV in, for example, 1970. There might well have been occasions where their selling dealers were making more per-car than Nissan Japan were getting back. No doubt the dealers were happy. Maybe that was part of the thinking...?

We've talked about it in the past, but I still think that at least TWO models of '240Z' would have been suitable for the North American market; One 'Hot' one, and one 'Deluxe' one. Nissan themselves could have loaded the Deluxe with all sorts of fun stuff to charge more for. Like carpets, for instance... ?  

[HS30-H]

9 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

It is most likely that the USA requirement for emissions caused the planned AC in that location to be replaced by the smog pump. This would have mooted the AC location quite quickly.

But how late would the planning for the smog pump system have been? It must have been planned well in advance, surely? It's a fairly complex system that has implications for several linked components, and some cost to the company. 

[SpeedRoo]

The USA did get two versions of the 240Z. The hot 2.4 liter engine 240Z with more torque and the same power as the DOHC2.0 Triple carbed 432 engine, less weight with no AC, carpet, underseal/sound deadening, accessories etc. compared to the JDM. The other was the US dealer version with all the bells and whistles added over here. Seemed to have worked judging by how many they sold in the first few years and the waiting lists for them.

[HS30-H]

7 minutes ago, SpeedRoo said:

The USA did get two versions of the 240Z. The hot 2.4 liter engine 240Z with more torque and the same power as the DOHC2.0 Triple carbed 432 engine, less weight with no AC, carpet, underseal/sound deadening, accessories etc. compared to the JDM. The other was the US dealer version with all the bells and whistles added over here. Seemed to have worked judging by how many they sold in the first few years and the waiting lists for them.

Taking the implications of your first sentence to its logical conclusion, each North American dealer had their own version of the '240Z'. This is, of course, nonsense.

I like your "same power" for the L24 vs S20. If you honestly think the retarded-timing, anti smog-equipped L24 in the HLS30U was kicking out the same as the S20 then - as we say over here - I have a bridge to sell you. 

It would be fun to have a theoretical race. Lets pick a race track with some corners rather than a drag strip. How about the old Watkins Glen? Or maybe Suzuka? You can have a 1970-spec HLS30U (complete with smog pump, 4-speed trans, 3.36:1 open diff, Amco towel rail bumper add-ons and rear window louvers) and I'll choose a 1970-spec PS30 (I could have chosen a PS30-SB, but I'll be nice) with its close ratio 5-speed Servo-synchro trans and 4.44:1 LSD. No gew-gaws on the 432 as - buying in Japan - the buyer gets to spec the car rather than the dealer. Lets race...

Now I don't claim to be a race car driver, but I've had lessons. Hopefully I was paying attention. Don't know your pedigree, but I'm willing to bet there's a good chance that I'll lap the track faster and smoother than you will. Because its all about the PS30 package.

You think different?