Mint '71 240Z - More Fun Coming to BaT

[SpeedRoo]

I'll take two bridges please, make that one we already have London bridge here! Nissan quote the power figures for the cars not me, they show the L24 240Z engine with more torque than the S20 432 one. They quote power about the same at 160PS. Surely you can't be saying Nissan, such an honorable Japanese company, would lie about the power figures.

[HS30-H]

25 minutes ago, SpeedRoo said:

I'll take two bridges please, make that one we already have London bridge here! Nissan quote the power figures for the cars not me, they show the L24 240Z engine with more torque than the S20 432 one. They quote power about the same at 160PS. Surely you can't be saying Nissan, such an honorable Japanese company, would lie about the power figures.

Rhetorical questions: How were the quoted power figures tested? UK/Aus/Euro/NZ 240Z models had the L24 engine without the smog pump-equipment, had retarded timing (check out the different distributors) of the HLS30U, but power figures are all quoted as being the same. Which is correct?

My money is on the HLS30U giving way less power at the wheels than the PS30, but also way less than the HS30U/HLS30.

Did you miss the point about the stock package? I'm talking about the whole car. These are supposed to be sports cars. You don't win sports car Top Trumps by being less sporty.

[240260280]

There was a great effort at Nissan to comply with USA safety requirements when developing the 240z long before production. It is documented in many books and quoted by many involved in the development.

The big challenge to Nissan in the mid to late 60's was the USA roll-over requirement as their big sports car seller was the Datsun 2 seater  convertable sold to the USA market. The fitting of roll bars early in the Z program seem to show the significance in making the Z compatible with USA safety requirements right from the start.  Other items such as lowering the floor to accommodate taller drivers, the smog kit mentioned above, etc. are all specific design changes/adaptations for the USA market.

 

To go back to the thought of the smog pump preventing the planned AC being fitted, it would be interesting to see the USA pollution regulation change dates and if they align with the smog pump's development.  Perhaps @Carl Beck may have some insight on this.

 

*Very* early Z LHD with roll bar fitted

 

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by 240260280

[240260280]

For documentation of HP and torque specification, we would be better off  looking at what we know from history:

• The L24's torque when racing off line made it better for racing than then S20.
• The S20 was better for maintaining a higher-end speed when lapping with no one on the track.

This was stated by a racer who had the privilege to race both cars in Japan 1970. These are from race prepped engines. However this seems very reasonable as the larger displacement of 2.4 vs 2.0 will give more torque, and the extra valves and crossflow of the 2.0 head will breath better at high rpms.

 

There is an excellent thread showing that the L24 beat many S20 fitted cars on its first racing outing.

The fact the USA market also got the 260z and 280z shows that Nissan was addressing the HP/Torque addition of drivers there ?

But still I would rather have Dimwit #1's BMW fitted Z ?  @grannyknot for the extra torque and HP!

 

[HS30-H]

11 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

There was a great effort at Nissan to comply with USA safety requirements when developing the 240z long before production. It is documented in many books and quoted by many involved in the development.

The big challenge to Nissan in the mid to late 60's was the USA roll-over requirement as their big sports car seller was the Datsun 2 seater  convertable sold to the USA market. The fitting of roll bars early in the Z program seem to show the significance in making the Z compatible with USA safety requirements right from the start.  Other items such as lowering the floor to accommodate taller drivers, the smog kit mentioned above, etc. are all specific to the USA market.

Why would you assume that development of the factory 'safety bar' kit was specific to USA safety requirements?

Nissan had committed - 'early in the Z programme' - to using the S30-series Z in its own racing and rallying activities, and made sure that this was taken into account in the design & engineering of the cars. FIA and JAF homologation was very important and required an integrated effort in order to get the application in early enough for it to be legal for the start of the 1970 season.

Clue: Monte Carlo. It's not in the USA:

[kats]

Hi Roo , it is a nice early Fairlady ZL , for me it is surprising to see it outside of Japan .

About the sound deadening , ( I am talking about at the rear deck ) at least up to summer of 1973 , Fairlady Z series don’t have the sound deadening on the rear deck .On the other hand ,  looking at my 03/70 US 240Z , there is already the sound deadening on the rear deck .

Talking about US and Canada 240Z , I believe only 1969 and some January 1970 cars don’t have the sound deadening at the rear deck , after that it applied for all the US and Canada 240Z ... How about other market S30 cars ? 

Z432 -R is a Spartan model , Z432 is a gorgeous model but it’s got a lot of performances features . 

Alan ‘s explanation is perfect , we can’t compare cars only looking at engines . Z432 has a complete sports package , and orchestra sound from the bonnet ! I am sure everyone will be pleased once they drove . I think only rival “ in stock configuration “ will be an Europe model , harder suspension set up , five speed , spoilers and magnesium wheels are standard but no LSD .

Toleration of water temperature when racing in a track , S20 will do much better than L - series engine because of the design of water flow of the S20 ‘s . Also the cross -flow configuration will bring a better heat treatment for avoiding  percolation , Z432 (Z432-R) will have an advantage for doing some laps ,

For a Long range journey, I will take  Fairlady 240ZG . Lets  say more than 200 -500 miles trip , you can move from A to B without fatigue, with minimum time . I did so many of this , G-nose effects is superior which of Z432 will do .Europe model will do close to the G-nose because of their spoilers .  From the test report , G-nose gives maximum effect when the car has a rear spoiler , this is important.

Kats

Edited January 31, 2020 by kats

[HS30-H]

3 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

For documentation of HP and torque specification, we would be better off  looking at what we know from history:

• The L24's torque when racing off line made it better for racing than then S20.
• The S20 was better for maintaining a higher-end speed when lapping with no one on the track.

This was stated by a racer who had the privilege to race both cars in Japan 1970. These are from race prepped engines. However this seems very reasonable as the larger displacement of 2.4 vs 2.0 will give more torque, and the extra valves and crossflow of the 2.0 head will breath better at high rpms.

 

You just moved the goal posts. We were naturally restricting our comparisons to what was available on the showroom floor (hence the HP vs PS comparo) and how do you compare individual race-prepped engines without knowing to what level, what purpose, they have been prepared? Casino.

Finally, how are you going to get a 2.4+litre car into a race class that is limited to 2.0 litres?  

[kats]

Hi Blue , you need to come to Japan and see me and my Z432 before it’s gone .  I am talking about stock vs stock like Alan do .

You will see what Z432 is like ?

Kats

[240260280]

In post war Japan Nissan only gained a serious interest in racing AFTER a privateer won a race in mid 1963.  Likewise the acquisition of Prince also raised the racing bar in Nissan when it merged with Nissan in mid 1966 however Nissan USA with Mr K was actively supporting racing since 1960. (Bob Sharp started with Nissan in 1964). USA was heading the Nissan racing effort!

 

 

 

[240260280]

4 minutes ago, kats said:

Hi Blue , you need to come to Japan and see me and my Z432 before it’s gone .  I am talking about stock vs stock like Alan do .

You will see what Z432 is like ?

Kats

Thanks !  It will be a dream. I will take you up on this the next time I am in Japan.

My only connections to the 432 is a mirror I picked up on Ebay and a 432R toy car I just got in the mail last night ?

 

 

[kats]

Many of my friends in Japan we’re amazed by this green car . So many people were watching at the auction, I am sure the winner must be very happy obtaining the incredible car . 

Here are some pictures of A/C of Fairlady Z . The 110 Red car is the one which I showed before , totally original , untouched , beautifully maintained like the green BAT car .

Kats

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by kats

[grannyknot]

49 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

But still I would rather have Dimwit #1's BMW fitted Z ?  @grannyknot for the extra torque and HP!

I thought you were Dimwit #1 and I was #2,  I'll tell you what, I'll wear the crown this year and you can have back next year, deal?