4 hours ago, conedodger said:

One has died...

 

I'm sorry @conedodger, my thoughts go out to his/her family..  

2 hours ago, Mike said:

  I don't know anyone asking if you like anal sex...  and I don't really want to know.

Exit only!

Exit only!

 

Yes, of course health is a personal decision. But my Z car friends won't catch your anal sex by standing next to you in line at Starbucks. In fact, by standing next to you in Starbucks, here's a partial list of things they won't catch from you:

Your cancer.
Your drug addiction.
Your heart disease.
Your obesity.
Your diabetes.

Lots and lots of people die from those, but the difference is YOU can't take me or my friends down with yours. And not only that, there isn't a vaccine to help prevent any of those. If we had a vaccine to reduce diabetes, I think it would be very popular and I don't think people would be diving for different corners because of it.

I think I put my thoughts on the matter into reasonably good words earlier:
https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/63698-covid-19/?page=67&tab=comments#comment-621155

On 5/6/2021 at 10:10 AM, Captain Obvious said:

I got my vaccine not only for myself but for my Z friends and everyone else I come into contact with. I want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

I want to visit with my Z buddies. I want to go to a Zcon and sit with a whole bunch of Jims and not take the risk of giving any of them a potentially deadly illness. And there's a way to make sure I don't. Get my vaccine.

I'm all for personal choice as long as it doesn't endanger other people. In other words, if the only person who is put at risk by your personal choice is YOU... Then go for it. But if your choice puts other people at risk that's not cool. You're removing their right to make their own choice by making it for them.

"If you're afraid of getting covid, you have a choice... You can choose to stay home."

"If you're afraid of getting vaccinated, you have a choice... You can choose to stay home."

Here's the difference:
If I don't have covid and I go out, I'm not putting anyone else at risk.
If I don't have the vaccine and I go out, I AM putting other people at risk.

 

Just a few random observations and comments here from the peanut gallery.  I have two good friends, both PHDs in biochemistry and California State University professors. One thinks the vaccine and mRNA technology is amazing and is very pro-vaccine, the other is on the other side of the coin and won't touch the mRNA vaccine. Both far more knowledgeable than me on the subject, both have their arguments for their stance.  I find that pretty interesting that both highly educated professors have such diverse opinions. 

Also, I have mentioned this before, but I have a hard time with the altruistic argument of getting a vaccine for the safety others being discussed on a car site. 

https://www.nsc.org/newsroom/motor-vehicle-deaths-2020-estimated-to-be-highest

Also, looks like Dr Fauci says our vaccinations may not protect our friends 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.firstpost.com/health/vaccinated-people-can-get-delta-variant-remain-asymptomatic-and-become-carriers-but-shots-prevent-severe-disease-9800741.html/amp&ved=2ahUKEwirperotOrxAhXHK80KHfn4BskQFjAMegQIHRAC&usg=AOvVaw3iUtYVK54bUEf8WO2YJ2Sp&ampcf=1

Just some observations. Feel free to fire away. 

Seems like there's enough information out there for people to make a choice.  That was my point in the post with the vaccination-risk comparison.  The same people are coming up with the same arguments, here on the old car site.  Anything can be rationalized.  Just ignore the data and do a Google search.

One of the great ironies of the situation though is that the ones that are claiming their independence are the ones that will most likely need help.  And the ones that are trying to help will be the ones that are the most independent.  Kind of absurd but that's where we are.

Good luck to both sides. 

 

Edit - also amusing that two vaccinated patients dying, and two professors (actually just one) are being used to argue against millions of real life data points assessed by hundreds of well-educated professionals who actually work in the area under discussion.  But that's how rational minds work, they rationalize.

Edited July 17, 20213 yr by Zed Head

Check out the Netherlands.  They "re-opened", plus there was the big Euro 2020 soccer tournament and their caseload is shooting for the sky.  Like hundreds of people all got infected at the same time.  The UK hasn't even lifted restrictions yet, that happens in a couple of days.   Fascinating stuff.  The Olympics will be something to follow.  Coming up.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

The graph above showing a spike but not a drastic spike for the US is a function of the number of people vaccinated. The US spike is mostly driven by the SE states with Florida passionately leading that charge. 20% of new CV19 cases are from Florida. 

Now as for vaccinators coming to your door, that is unlikely to happen. It is and will happen in other free countries. The Philippines will require vaccination. At present they are rolling it out badly vaccinating only 100K a day or so. With 107M people, you will take until 2035 to vaccinate everyone. Their president has already said he will put people in jail for not getting vaccinated.

As I assume the only medical practitioner in this discussion, I will say that unless you have a valid reason not to get vaccinated you should. mRNA tech is amazing and will likely lead to treatments that change life drastically for the good. If you don't want to get vaccinated because you heard that people get sick after the second shot, the symptoms are certainly annoying but they are temporary and death is permanent. 

The thing that astounds me is the contrast between the American response to WWII and the American response to CV19. My grandmother worked in a factory making C-Rations. She had previously been a housewife. She did that so there would be food for our troops. She sacrificed. 

This is serious. With no response at all, it would have taken out millions in the US alone. Virus' evolve. It's not done. As I said previously, it has in some cases defeated the vaccine which means if you haven't been vaccinated, you may have waited too long. Still, the vaccine seems to be mitigation and that will save lots of lives. 

I have no doubt that some politician is sitting in a meeting in the Netherlands saying "spike yes, but look at what the soccer event did for the economy!" 

Just a small sacrifice could end this. Wait too long and it can't help us. 

In general, I find people who act like sheep to be stupid. The problem here is we have some really bad shepherds. 

Get vaccinated. 

Of course your health care is your personal choice, but one of the points I've been trying to make previously is that the info you get in order to make your choice should come from reputable sources.

If you're getting your vaccine guidance from some guy on the internet (like that fear mongering youtube video), then I think you should seek more reputable guidance. If you're getting your vaccine advice from a Facebook friend, then I think you should seek more reputable guidance.

Call your doctor and ask them.
Simple as that. Ask your doctor what they think.

Ask them about the risks of getting a vaccine and the risks of not getting it. Ask them if they recommend getting it or not. Ask your doctor about the bad things you've heard like tracking chips and sterility. Ask them what they think about those risks.

Don't listen to me. Don't listen to Facebook. Don't listen to Youtube. Don't listen to MSNBC. Don't listen to FOX. Don't listen to that wacky "news" site run by the religious cult from China. Don't listen to internet "news" from someone who calls themselves "the first port of call for the argumentative Indian."

Call your doctor. YOUR doctor. Call your doctor and ask.
Call them and use their guidance to form an opinion that isn't fed to you by some guy on the internet.

I've been struggling with figuring out how to put that into words.

Oh Great! Here comes the Lambda variant... 

<Sigh...>

So is the Lambda covered well by the current vaccines?

I know it's just a matter of time before this thing uses the unprotected pool of donors to mutate into a form that is NOT picked up by the vaccine, but I'm hoping that hasn't happened yet.

Enjoy everyday you wake up.

It's over folks.

We had some fun though...

I haven’t posted on this thread for a myriad of reasons mostly because I have followed Captain Obvious’s advice. Let the medical professionals be your guide. I’m lucky that I’m married to a Doctor and she’s 100% pro vaccine and pro COVID-19 vaccine. She’s blown away there are people not getting vaccinated because of conspiracy theory’s. When in doubt trust your physician and when people make crazy accusations I use Occam’s Razor (Principle of Parsimony) the simplest explanation is usually the most accurate one. The government doesn’t need to fake a pandemic to make you take a vaccine to alter you DNA or whatever you Facebook buddy came up with. There are many more logical avenues to do such a thing if you were so convinced they would do such a thing.
Bruce: to answer you question this might be helpful. Passed to me by a friend who is a doctor and says this guy Is spot on with COVID info.

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