Nissan Z: 50 Years of Exhilarating Performance

[Jason240z]

@HS30-H reading between the lines, i'm guessing you're not a fan?

[Jason240z]

On 6/28/2020 at 9:10 PM, Z50for2020 said:

My, we have a lot of criticisms here.  I appreciate the clarity.  I did my research with the help of Nissan's library and lots of interviews.  If there are issues, I am taking notes.  Yes, the Datsun Z432 name was an error, but I think "15 years of mistakes" is a bit harsh, HS30-H.  Write your own book, then.

didn't you also plan to, or feature 'the240zguild' in the book?  are you aware of his history?  The other chap who posts on BAT, who likes to talk about himself, what did he bring to the party? who did you consult to get facts?

[HS30-H]

Page 16: "....but in 1911, US-educated Masujiro Hashimoto began the Kwaishinsha Motor Company in Tokyo."

There was never any company called 'Kwaishinsha'. It was 'Kaishinsha'.  

Here's the original Kanji: 快進社

 

 

 

[HS30-H]

Page 16: "Hashimoto took three years to build his first vehicle, a two-cylinder, 10-horsepower car he called the "Dat". The name derived from the initials of his three supporters. Dat also means "hare" in Japanese, reflecting the vehicle's presumed speed and craftiness."

Here's a classic case of copying the mistakes of others. The Japanese word for the common Hare is 'Nousagi' (literally, 'Field Rabbit').

 

The running hare emblem on some of the early Datsun products:

 

This is not 'a Dat'. In Japanese, the word which can be Romanised as 'Dat' (phonetically 'Da-tto') is a verb. Here's the Japanese dictionary again:

 

...so the emblem uses the wild Hare as a symbol of speed and agility (whilst still being fairly modest) and it is not 'a Dat'.   

 

 

 

[26th-Z]

I would argue, in reference to the symbolism of the hood ornament, that "datto" is a prefix.  What we really should say about the hood ornament and the DAT / hare correlation includes the prevailing philosophy of design (in Japan) at the time.  The image of a leaping hare expresses datto - or DAT; lightning speed.  DAT / Datsun really means "lightning speed".  This is classic Japanese Art Deco.  The expression is obvious and I can see with a stretch how the DAT / hare connection could be made, by someone who doesn't understand art, perhaps an American (sarcasm intended).  The ornamental animal is posed in a way to express motion, or in this case, lightning speed, quick response, and as fast as...  It is expressed from a hare which conjures the thought of quick response or lightning speed because those are the outstanding qualities of a hare.  It is not a literal translation to "rabbit"!  

[HS30-H]

Splitting Hares, 26th-Z...?  ?

It's all very well for us to wax lyrical about the symbolism of motoring ornaments - and it's a good thing - but that beautifully realised Deco figure on the top of the Datsun radiator is not a 'Dat', and 'Dat' is not Japanese for 'Hare'. 

 

Happy 4th July, by the way. Here's an English hood ornament on the day we celebrate having got rid of the troublemakers:

 

[HS30-H]

Page 118: "...the Z432. Four valves, three carburettors, two camshafts. Carrying the S20 engine originally installed in the Skyline 2000GT-R (KPGC10), which was built by Prince Motor Company, the automaker Nissan acquired in 1966..." 

The PGC10 Skyline GT-R debuted in February 1969. The PS30 Fairlady Z432 and PS30-SB Fairlady Z432-R debuted in October 1969. The KPGC10 Skyline GT-R debuted in October 1970, a full year after the 432 and 432-R. So, if we want to say that the 432 and 432-R received the Skyline GT-R's S20 engine, we have to cite the four door PGC10 as the 'source', not the two-door KPGC10.

In any case, it's not strictly accurate. By the time the S20 engine was being finalised for production, it was already lined up for use in the S30-series Z chassis as well as the C10-series Skyline, and the cylinder block was engineered to fit both mid-rear sump (Z) and front sump (GT-R) configurations and their corresponding oil pickup/main oil gallery and dipstick locations. In fact, the first batch of 432/432-R engine block castings were made at the same time as the first Skyline GT-R blocks.

And 'built by Prince Motor Company'? The S20 engine was descended from the Prince GR8, but was quite different. In truth the S20 was a Nissan product, designed and made by what used to be Prince before it was subsumed by Nissan... 

[Pilgrim]

Man, it has been a long time since I have read such a stream of negative comments in an enthusiast thread.

Someone here needs to write their own book.

[HS30-H]

7 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Man, it has been a long time since I have read such a stream of negative comments in an enthusiast thread.

Someone here needs to write their own book.

If there were not so many mistakes in the book, it wouldn't be possible to pick it apart piece-by-piece, would it?

And this is classiczcars.com, where we - hopefully - pride ourselves on getting this stuff right. If we don't, then who will? WE are the enthusiasts. I presume that WE are the target market, no?

Perhaps Mr Evanow just needs to write a better book? Or get it double checked by people who know their stuff before publication?

 

Oh, and from the publisher smallprint in the book:

"We apologize for any inaccuracies that may have occurred and will resolve inaccurate or missing information in a subsequent reprinting of the book."

[Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, HS30-H said:

If there were not so many mistakes in the book, it wouldn't be possible to pick it apart piece-by-piece, would it?

And this is classiczcars.com, where we - hopefully - pride ourselves on getting this stuff right. If we don't, then who will? WE are the enthusiasts. I presume that WE are the target market, no?

Perhaps Mr Evanow just needs to write a better book? Or get it double checked by people who know their stuff before publication?

Oh, and from the publisher smallprint in the book:

"We apologize for any inaccuracies that may have occurred and will resolve inaccurate or missing information in a subsequent reprinting of the book."

In that case, you should provide a well-researched and extensive set of errata to the publisher and request that they be included in the next edition. 

[HS30-H]

26 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

In that case, you should provide a well-researched and extensive set of errata to the publisher and request that they be included in the next edition. 

I intend to.

In the meantime, I'm carrying on with my critique here in the hope that it will elicit some discussion on the topics raised, and - thereby - get us all a little closer to the truth.

If anyone disagrees with the points I am bringing up, they are most welcome to counter.

[gogriz91]

Am I the only one waiting for Alan's book to be published to correct the many mistakes made by other authors about Z history, models etc?  It's kinda fun in the cheap seats and the peanut gallery but it's still the peanut gallery and the cheap seats.  I'm serious, i would pay good money for a book you would author Alan, if you would.