1977 280z clock issue #xx of yy

[zclocks]

If you take  the clock apart in the future I can tell you how to align the clock hands. 

[240zadmire]

Ok, ok, I told you that I must stop before I screw up... we’ll, I cannot help it. I’m sick, I need professional help!

 

its one of those things though only you know about it, nobody else, but you know about it bothers me.  So, I decided to take another look to adjust the clock hands. This procedure is semi noninvasive.  I did not take all the gears out but loosen up just one.  Adjust the hour hand to one of the hour not 12, 3, 6, or 12. The minute hand should be pretty close to 12.  Loosen up the 2 long bolts a turn or so.  That will allow the gear right beneath it to loose from its position. Slightly lift it up and fiddling with it either left or right depends on the minute hand on the right or left of 12.  Raise the clock up while fiddling it so you can see where you’re at.

i got darn close if not spot on.

Hi @zclocks what do you think?  What’s your method?

when time permits, I will work on the original analog clock.  I always love then to look at the mechanical clocks.  Perhaps build a see through case and put it in my workbench/office.  Talking about mechanical clocks, how folks build automatic/mechanical watches is beyond my mind can comprehend.  Intricate, beautiful mechanically and durability.  What a time piece!

 

regards

 

[zclocks]

It looks like you are right on . Of course it's hard to tell from the angle of the photo. If you set the hands to  6 o'clock it should  look like a straight line, is it?

You have to remember that the clock hands are very wide and there is gear backlash. The best you can set the time for is   + 10-15 seconds.  

Trying to manipulate the gears once assembled is the hard way to go. Same thing like removing the 240 clock. Why access the clock by removing the heater

controls when you can go through the glove box!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[240zadmire]

@zclocks

 

i thought about using 6 o’clock to leverage the gravity but the hour hand already pretty stiff from moving around.  I want some lines on the face plate as close to the hour hand as possible to use as reference.  That’s why I choose any line besides the number and if the hour hand move by accident while I fiddling or gravity, I would know immediately.  It’s great to know about  + 10-15. Had I pay more attention in geometry class...

About removing the clock from the dash... someone suggested to remove from the heater, vent control ... the minute I look at it, I say no way it will come out.  If it does, scratch all over and your hand probably will get bruises.  I went the same route as yours.  Remove glove compartment and it’s so much easy to get it out.

 

next step is polishing it.

learn years back that tooth paste also can be used to polish headlight... though mine didn’t come out the way they showed on YouTube but definitely better than before.

its all about around house hold products.  Keeping environment friendly ?.

 

- 2 tooth picks (you’ll see it use latter)

- few paper tower sheet or a roll (I don’t have fiber cloth, sheep fur....)

- tooth paste with baking soda and peroxide

- dish wash soap.  Not the kind in dishwasher.

- Compressed air can.  Not your 100 gallons 20 horsepower.  Don’t need CFM here.  A bit overkill for this application in my opinion.

put 1 tooth pick in your mouth and keep it there.

before

 

wash thoroughly with water and soap

rinse it and now apply tooth paste on it.  Use paper tower and rub it in circular motion or whatever.  Wash, rinse and repeat to your satisfaction.  The advantage is using hand to polish is that, at the end of the session, you’ll get a firm curl bicep.  Just like the picture ?

once done, blow with compressed air to get all water residual.  I just blow it using my mouth.  Don’t want to leave any water in the adjustment knob.  Might get corroded. I drop a few rubbing alcohol and hopefully when alcohol evaporates, it takes away water too.

 

After all the work out, final product look like this.  The photos don’t do it justice but you should feel smooth and shine against light.

 

I suppose I can pry the glass off but then I don’t have glue to glue it back in and light brake it... job is a bit harder though.

oh about the tooth picks, One is to clean the hard to reach such as where the glass meets the shrouding. Or the external where your fingernail cannot reach it.  The other toothpick your mouth is holding is use to pick something stuck in your teeth after your ate dinner.

What about this you might ask.  What is it for?

 

you’ll need to replace the seal.  It brittle and cannot provide seal for dust and other moisture stuff.  It just happen the cans fit perfectly to cut the seal.  I’m going to need to experience this.  I order the rubber sheet and hopefully the same thickness for the seal.  I need to figure out how to cut the seal.

 Once I’m done with the cans I can eat it too.

regards

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by 240zadmire

[zclocks]

When I mentioned removing the clock through the glove box I was referring to the 240Z. I always remove the 280z clock through the vent under the 3 gauges. You remove 8 screws and the clock slips right out. You didn't mention , but is your clock keeping good time? 

The way to adjust the clock hands is you have to remove the minute hand form the clock shaft. If you remove the shaft from the main clock gear and reinsert it you can damage the main gear.

I enlarged one of you photos you posted and I believe there are two cracks in your main gear.  The reason you shouldn't remove this shaft from the gear is the end of the shaft is knurled and 

there is an interference fit between the knurled shaft and the Nylon gear. The shaft is inserted in the gear when it is removed from the injection mold. The warm nylon conforms to the knurling and locks the shaft to the gear. Fast forward 40 plus years and the Nylon becomes brittle. You stress the Nylon when you remove the shaft and potentially crack it. The nylon is  really stressed 

when you reinsert the knurled shaft as the knurling will not go back to its original position in the gear. When I say stressed it cracks and the teeth on either side of the crack separate.This changes the spacing between the two teeth and the mating gear can lock up or slip. 

Not much you can do now, but I wouldn't put additional stress on the shaft by pulling it out. If you want to get closer with your clock hand alignment you need to remove the minute hand with a puller that doesn't apply stress. Using the credit card and screw driver method is what pulled the clock shaft out of the gear.

If you look at the photos you will see the puller I made. All you need is an old pair of needle nose pliers and a bench grinder. To insert the minute hand back on the shaft what I use is a tongue depressor(modified). 

As far as the rubber gasket goes just flip it over 180 deg and use it. The only function it serves is to push the bezel /lens out 1/8 inch for the alignment of the clock set knob. None of the mechanisms are hermetic. If the 240z clock mechanism was hermetic the clock would last years longer.

You can remove the lens, but you risk damage to the lens and the bezel. Mask off the bezel with painters tape and polish the lens.

The polish I like is Flitz, Semichrome, and Brasso. They all do a good job on the plastic.

 

 

[240zadmire]

@zclocks,

Sir, you're very detail.  Thank you for sharing your knowledge.  It is lock in my vault.  Will definitely refer to it next time I got another chance of fixing a clock.

I didn't not pay attention close enough to the gear.  I thought there has to be a puller like the 3 or 2 prongs to pull the pulley from the engine.  The modified pliers is a genius.   I did not know why I thought the minute hand and the shaft is a one piece.  Had I pay a little bit more attention, I would have go the same route as pulling the hour hand by stacking up credit card.  But I notice it pretty hard to pry it out and might ended up the same result.  That was why I used the resize watch link and tap it out. The pliers is the way to go.  The force will only between the object need to be removed and the host it is sitting on.  It won't disturbed other component.  Very nice!

  

 

Since you suggest to keep the clock roughly 10-15 seconds faster/slower, I set it to run approximate 15 seconds faster.  The clock has been keeping good time at least 16 hours before I left this morning.  Let's see if I have a magnify glass or my kids might have one.  I need to reexamine the gear again to see its condition.  I'm curious.  Won't remove it as you mentioned another stress might permanently damage it.  

 

Funny thing ... there used to be a clock/watch repair shop in the mall near my place.  Couple of decades ago...  There used to be an old guy fixing all sort of clock/watch, big/small.  Whenever I walk by, I always admired how steady his hand with his "miniature" tool sets.  He must be in his late 60s or early 70s but real steady.  Didn't pay much attention as there were more important things to notice at the mall when you're a teenager, you know what I mean.

Again, thank you for pointing out the obvious and I learn something.  Will post the picture of the clock tonight when I get home.

 

regards,

 

 

[zclocks]

I should mention that the plires,used as a puller, is only to break the surface tension of the corrosion between the clock hands (Tin) and the clock shaft (brass). Once you get the hand(s) to 

slightly move you can remove it with your fingers. Also, the plires are used to remove both clock hands.

I know that some hands can seem like they are welded on. In that case you can use 1/2 drop of "Blaster" penetrating spray and let it sit for a couple of hours (don't get any on the clock face). Just before you try and remove the hand apply heat from a hair dryer or heat gun and it will let go.

Also, Blaster is the best stuff on the market and it penetrates all rust. I've remove many rusty exhaust manifold bolts / nuts that normally would break. "Blaster" and heat works every time.

Edited August 17, 2020 by zclocks

[240zadmire]

Hi @zclocks

 

i tried all sort of things from transmission fluid mixed with brake fluid, blaster fluid... torch heat, not the acetylene, heat, cool ... to remove the egr pipe to the exhaust manifold, I lost the battle.

i did examined the hands and looked to me the minute hand was pressed in hard or welded in. Did not give it a second thought and jump the gun too quick.  That’s my fault.  Fail the patience part miserably ? No wonder I had to tap a bit hard from the back to remove it.

it was so hard to record the video.  So much light interference.  I had to shone a flash light in the back to get the clock illuminate.  You can hear the solenoid strike every 5 second or so if you turn on the volume to the max.  
 

after 20+ hours, the clock is pretty accurate.  I did confirm I can see the 2 cranked you mentioned.  And I did set the clock to be faster approximately 10-15 seconds.

 

please see the photos and the video.  
I hope it won’t cause too much trouble in future.  I’ll keep an eyes for a donor one to get the gear.  This time, will do the proper way.

thanks again for all the info and help

 

regards

 

 

[240zadmire]

@zclocks

the quartz is in.  Let’s see how long de lasts but from +30hrs, she keeps very accurate time.  

I have a favorite to ask.  The original clock is on the bench right now.  I believe I found the culprit unless it is by design.  Pardon my terminology but he wheel that connect directly to the pendulum shaft appears to be deform.  If it is, I’m guessing due to temperature and gravity the pull it down cause it to deform.  But then again, not likely gravity be side it is so light... 

anyway, if I flip the clock upside down, it spins just fine.  Just like if the clock was face down.  But up right, the pendulum wheel slowly stops.

if that is deformed, a quick fix would be turn upside down, turn the faceplate upside down again and flip the bracket upside down as well.

 

Let me know your thought.

 

regards

 

[Captain Obvious]

I'm not exactly sure what you're thinking is deformed, but if it's the bent looking "teeth" on the white pendulum gear, then there's no problem with that. They are supposed to look like that.

That's what changes the "back-and-forth" motion of the pendulum into a unidirectional rotation of the next gear in the gear-train (the pink-ish colored gear).

In other words, the pendulum gear changes direction as it swings back and forth, but the next gear in the system always rotates in the same direction. Those bent looking teeth are the clutch that allows that to happen.

[240zadmire]

You’re right. Then there’s must some thing else bar have too much “friction” to cause the pendulum not freely move.  Will exam the patient closer.  Need 2nd, 3rd .... opinion before operating on it.   Quite daunting with the winding coil...

Edited August 19, 2020 by 240zadmire

[Dave WM]

my guess is its just a lack of kick from the coil, in some positions just less of a load. My guess is a weak coupling cap or transistor.