Engine Rebuild

[Zed Head]

16 hours ago, HDAtom said:

I decided to just take it apart and try and figure out if anything is wrong inside the engine. I figured engines are simple (lol), fuel, air, and spark right?? It is already out and I can't do a compression test.  

Looks like you've only removed the valve cover.  The sludge is probably from 70's era non-detergent oil and few oil changes.  Not really a big deal.

You can check the timing chain for wear by checking the notch and groove on the timing chain sprocket.  If you have the transmission you can bolt it back up and the starter and turn the engine over.  Or build a stand like Dave WM.  The engine might have a lot of good miles left in it as-is.  Maybe not a good idea to take it apart to rebuild.

The next simple step would be to remove the head though, if you decide to go ahead with some level of rebuild.  Can't tell much just looking at the rocker arms and cam lobes.  Engine rebuilding is a big job though, especially i you're new to engine work.

The Engine Mechanical chapter of the FSM goes in to great detail about the work required.

[Dave WM]

Here is some advise, do as little as possible to get the car running before tearing into it. You may find the stock setup perfect for you with just some refreshing. I like to keep the car as OE as possible. The reason being I can use the FSM for all maint and repairs as long as it left original. These cars were very well made in a era before computers. the wire harness maybe in good condition. The main thing is to clean up terminations of wires. some contact cleaner and deoxit will go a long way. Once you start modifying things getting help will not be as easy. After you get the car running you can asses what changes are actual improvements. Do so research on the use of poly urethane in place of OE rubber as an example. If you have an FI car the FI section of the FSM covers it well. the OE FI is really very simple and works well once its sorted out. Lots of folks like to change up the suspension, again try it stock you may find it perfect as is. I like to respect the car for what it is and how I remember it (lots of older guys have fond memories of these when new as I do). Its your car so of course you have the right to do what every you want, imho trying it stock is a good starting place to know what changes are right for you. Good luck with what every way you go and remember we LOVE pictures, or better still video.

[Av8ferg]

Welcome to the club. This forum is different than most out there. Don’t expect to run into guys on here giving you a hard time or being flat out jerks. It’s why this forum continues to thrive.
So I have a 77 too and my engine looked much like yours. I opted to rebuild a later L28 block. (F54) you have a N42 block. Doesn’t matter both are fine, I’d work with what you got. Like mentioned above these engine are robust.
Dave WM has good advice, it’s a toss up in my eyes if you go the minimalist approach. I’m for rebuilding an unknown quantity because ultimately you don’t want to repeat work, and you want a reliable engine too. Installing only to pull it later is repeating work. It would be good to at least get the top end redone. Rebuild the head, maybe a little resurface and clean up the pistons. I’d be willing to bet your bearings are fine so its probably going to need new one. I didn’t take my own advice and did a full rebuild. It was a lot of work and got a little more technical that I expected. A full top and bottom rebuild is going to cost you about $1,000 minimum. That is if you do most of the work. The good news is there is a team of people on this forum that will help you get through it. It wasn’t easy but it wasn’t super hard either. It was a pain in the butt tackling a few items.
I saw you mentioned possibly going turbo. That a whole different can of worms. If you want a turbo, I’d find a L28ET motor as your starting point. Turbo engines have a lower compression ration than stock NA engine when unboosted. There are several unique parts like a cam sensor and many parts can be hard to find unless you start with a turbo motor. You can do well with an NA motor like AK260 mentioned.
Good luck!


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[AK260]

I am absolutely blown away by the responses! Haven't posted on too many forums but I usually get blasted on the first post no matter where it is. 

 

That is an awesome stand, loved the videos, I may be interested to do it!

 

So much more to think about......

 

 

In terms of my plans for the car, this list also goes in order of operations. I hope to finish the car with about 15-20k. This leaves about 3 or 4k for the engine, power is not my main concern atm and can be revisited later as I know these cars are fun stock and its simple enough to pull the engine and really get it done if I choose to in the future. I prefer suspension and tires over power as there are a lot of fun curvy roads out here and I don't like speeding tickets... Everything in this list is fully DIY except for the engine.

 

• Got the car for $1,000
• Currently fixing body (its not too bad, almost all the usually non-structural rust spots) for hopefully ~$500-1,000
• Painting at home for ~$2,000 (already priced out liquids and know where I am buying it) lets hope I can do it well [emoji2957]
• Fix engine... ???$
• New wiring harness - ~$400 (I'm actually excited for building this, thinking about templating and trying to sell some to earn little bit of cash for the build as well as helping other with a high quality harness)
• Rebuild transmission - ~$500 (hopefully)
• Rebuild differential, maybe OBX LSD - $500-1,000 
• Hoping for a full Techno Toy build as almost everything under the car looks shot and I hate money. $8,000-10,000
• Interior - ~$1000

This is quite an ambitious project, but I have about 3 months till my next job starts and look forward to putting 40-60 hour weeks into this. Please let me know if my plan is dumb . I look forward to asking for lots of help and learning a lot...[emoji851] 

 

 

 

Wow! You certainly do hate money!!! The TTT stuff is very nice indeed and a friend of mine in the UK (whom like you, equally hates money and doesn’t have to pay school fees) has them on his car. The beauty is that you can dial the suspension in perfectly as you get full adjustment of toe / camber / caster etc. His car on Yokohamas is an absolutely limpit in the twisties, often leaving many modern cars in his wake!

 

 

The one thing that isn’t obvious from your list and is most important is a brake upgrade. While these cars had great brakes in the 70s, great is only relative to the cars around you.

 

I nearly went into the backs of two cars on different occasions when they pulled in front of me just before a roundabout (halving my braking distance) and slamming on their modern brakes. You can spend a lot or a moderate amount. I personally don’t think you need a rear disc conversion unless you live in a mountainous area or plan to long track days. I have vented discs and Toyota S12w callipers at the front, drums at the back. The car stops as good as my Audis (minus ABS and ESC of course) and copes well with a couple of track days a year.

 

I once did a consultancy assignment for Lotus and one of the engineers challenged us to say what is the easiest way to make a car faster? The typical answers were quickly dispatched with his reply - “improve the brakes”! Second to that was set the suspension up right. Increasing power was at the bottom of his list.

 

I like the spreadsheet idea. I started with that when I was going to rebuild myself at first and it really shows you what you need and how the costs ramp up.

 

[grannyknot]

6 hours ago, HDAtom said:

Hoping for a full Techno Toy build as almost everything under the car looks shot and I hate money. $8,000-10,000

Hey I bet I can save you $8k, the suspension might look like it is shot and certainly the original rubber bushings are but you may be very surprised how well new rubber bushings make the car feel.  There are more than a few guys here that have gone the poly urethane bushings route then turned around and replaced that with fresh OEM rubber. If the car is a dedicated track car that's one thing, if you're doing a mixture of town and country driving then the harshness of the poly can get old really fast.

TTT's stuff is sexy for sure but all new rubber bushings and mounts is only going to set you back about $500, however, poly mounts for the steering rack really are a must. Just my opinion.

[Dave WM]

boy I would like to give folks I ride in my all OE z, just for a baseline to see how it rides. I took it on the trip to pikes peak, avg about 800-900 miles per day, was quite comfortable doing it. AC and good ride made for a very nice ride. I can't over state the importance of AC esp if you live anywhere in the south. Without it, pure misery.

[AK260]

In 2 days you did my total miles last year!! :)

[Dave WM]

wait till I do the Yukon ride, plan is central florida to Alaska..non stop but for sleep. I do my site seeing while driving.

I have a park I drive to at least 2 times a week that is about 70 miles round trip. really racking up miles on it and loving it.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Dave WM

[Av8ferg]

You’re doing it right Dave....driving it.  Who wants a hangar queen..  I’ll get mine there someday.  Life has been extremely busy.  Finally moved in the new place and we have stuff everywhere.  I hear you with the AC, not sure how people drove without it back in the day.   My car has stock AC but I’m 100% sure it doesn’t work.  It’s on the list of items to tackle.   
Stock engines typically run better and are more reliable.  You see these crazy mods people do and their engine sounds like crap.  The only mods I’ll have are a slightly shaved head .020, headers and strongly consider SU carb conversion.  Just bought a set of SUs with intakes and all the extras for $200 on CL  Something about a carbureted engine.  I know the FI is pretty good but wanted to maybe change my gameplan.  Had planned on keep FI, but I love the sound and simplicity of carbs.  
HDAtom,  the folks on this forum really know these cars and most have seen all types of mods and such.  I like DaveWMs approach before you go crazy trying to do too much.  The only reason I went for the full rebuild was that my car was in storage while my house was being built and it was something to do while I waited.  You have to be careful of mission creep ( a term we used in the military to describe how you can be easily driven from your original goal).  Like I said, I’d clean it up, do the compression check, if good maybe pull the head clean it up and have it rebuilt .  Also consider knocking out some easy stuff, like replacing the water pump, and like ZedHead said check your timing chain markings to see where you are.  It might be old and stretched and better to replace when it’s out of the car vs doing it installed.  Then put it in the car and get it running.  Make sure you get your tank cleaned up so your pushing fresh clean fuel too.  Good Luck and keep us posted.  
You forgot pics of the car.  It’s like porn to people on this forum.  Everyone wants to see what you got so post some pics when you have a chance.