Parts for Sale: 4x reproduction Nissan Fairlady Z432 wheels in aluminum

[HS30-H]

6 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

Quoted by Alan T on AusZcar the 24th August 2019

I can recommend the re-issue ADVAN (Yokohama) HF Type-D in 195/70-14.

Here they are on a set of genuine 432 type Kobe Seikos, but I reckon the size will happily stretch the extra inch to work on the 7J Kobe Seiko Works Rally Mag replicas

Quoted by Alan T on AusZcar the 19th Oct 2019

The latest run of replicas being sold in Japan by M-Speed are made outside Japan, so their overhead costs are much lower. They are slightly different than the originals, and are made from Aluminium alloy rather than Magnesium. 

Q.E.D.

....and? What point are you trying to make here? I stand by everything I wrote there. I was comparing the manufacturing costs of the M-Speed Japan wheels with other - Made In Japan - runs of replicas. The M-Speed replicas clearly cost less to manufacture than those previously made in Japan, and therefore M-Speed have been able to set their retail costs lower than the previous replicas were sold for. No exactly rocket science, is it?

You took the quotes out of their original contexts, but they still don't support your position.

[Sean Dezart]

The first quote was directed at Jason who doubted that there was a large works' wheel.

The second quote now serves to illustrate that even you call them replicas and not 'in the style of'.

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, Sean Dezart said:

The first quote was directed at Jason who doubted that there was a large works' wheel.

Since he's seen the genuine article on one of my cars, borrowed one to try out on his car (brake fit) and has long admired them, I'd say that you misunderstood him.

1 hour ago, Sean Dezart said:

The second quote now serves to illustrate that even you call them replicas and not 'in the style of'.

Replicas, 'tributes', evocations, copies, 'fakes', lookalikes, variations-on-a-theme-of? These terms are moveable feasts at the best of times. Shall we try to think of some more labels for them? On the other hand, you seem to be supplying 'REAL Z Wheels' stickers for your customers whilst managing to keep a straight face. Top trolling.

Actually, I agree with Ian. They are indeed not quite exact replicas. We discussed this when M-Speed first brought them to market, and the concensus was that they were a good product at a very fair price for the Japanese market. M-Speed's QC and customer service has reportedly been very good. 

 

I look forward to you addressing the (many) other questions asked.

[Sean Dezart]

3 hours ago, HS30-H said:

I look forward to you addressing the (many) other questions asked.

You'll need binoculars Alan.😄 

And how very typical of you to suggest that I have misunderstood when I read this from Jason "I'm possibly wrong but there's no such thing as z432-r versions, as they came with skinny little steel wheels?" Want to correct me or your padewan ?

As far as I'm concerned, we've established

 

a) their origin and their quality level.

b their sizes and weights, offsets, PCDs and CBs etc

c) that I'm selling a set of 4x 'in the style of Z432' wheels on this site to donating members at €1210 and at a public price of €1260 (both sumes including shipping - tracked and insured) with a choice of hub stickers and a white leather exclusive key-ring

d) that I'm selling a set of 4x 'in the style of Z432-R' works-wheels on this site to donating members at €1330 and at a public price of €1390 (both sumes including shipping - tracked and insured) with a choice of hub stickers and a white leather exclusive key-ring

e) we can call them replicas, reproductions, fakes, knock-offs but they're still great wheels at a great price and over the years we've seen many copies of copies - American Racing, Vectors, Minilites, Panasports to name a few....

f) that Alan doesn't think it 'cool' to approach the factory from the FRONT door and ask to buy these wheels ; thics ? That is between M-Speed and the factory who agreed to sell them at the same rate that M-Speed pays. You can verify that with Jamel.

g) that Alan doesn't want to see these wheels sold to the general public at affordable prices (forget what he thinks is fair in the JDM because they all cost a fortune there !)

h) that his writing companion, Jason, doesn't want to see you guys wearing these wheels either because ''the curb appeal would drop massively'' ; the more you see of these wheels on the roads, the less the appeal - nonsense, the more people see great parts, the more they want them - no-one covets what they don't see and can't afford.....but Jason and Alan mean that the appeal to THEM will reduce, the exclusive feeling - the basically selfish 'I have them and you don't' will vanish for which I feel rather sad for the pair and fondamentally arrogant.

i) I ought to note that after-sales service will be second to none, goods replaced or refunded if damaged in transit - I've not let down customers yet and not about to for wheels or other parts - I'm a Z owner too so I know what it's like the other side of the 'counter'

j) I tire of the continual ping-pong and tit for tat that you consistently offer so this is it for question time - you've had your 15mins and I have other fish to fry.

 

Lastly, I feel absolutely no obligation whatsoever to answer any of your questions or reply to your sarcasm and snidy comments.

 

These awesome wheels are on sale here at a great price or you can pay double and make Alan happy.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Sean Dezart

[duffymahoney]

15x8 and I would be all over it:) 

[Sean Dezart]

Not consider 15x7 ?

[Jason240z]

10 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

You'll need binoculars Alan.😄 

And how very typical of you to suggest that I have misunderstood when I read this from Jason "I'm possibly wrong but there's no such thing as z432-r versions, as they came with skinny little steel wheels?" Want to correct me or your padewan ?

As far as I'm concerned, we've established

 

a) their origin and their quality level.

b their sizes and weights, offsets, PCDs and CBs etc

c) that I'm selling a set of 4x 'in the style of Z432' wheels on this site to donating members at €1210 and at a public price of €1260 (both sumes including shipping - tracked and insured) with a choice of hub stickers and a white leather exclusive key-ring

d) that I'm selling a set of 4x 'in the style of Z432-R' works-wheels on this site to donating members at €1330 and at a public price of €1390 (both sumes including shipping - tracked and insured) with a choice of hub stickers and a white leather exclusive key-ring

e) we can call them replicas, reproductions, fakes, knock-offs but they're still great wheels at a great price and over the years we've seen many copies of copies - American Racing, Vectors, Minilites, Panasports to name a few....

f) that Alan doesn't think it 'cool' to approach the factory from the FRONT door and ask to buy these wheels ; thics ? That is between M-Speed and the factory who agreed to sell them at the same rate that M-Speed pays. You can verify that with Jamel.

g) that Alan doesn't want to see these wheels sold to the general public at affordable prices (forget what he thinks is fair in the JDM because they all cost a fortune there !)

h) that his writing companion, Jason, doesn't want to see you guys wearing these wheels either because ''the curb appeal would drop massively'' ; the more you see of these wheels on the roads, the less the appeal - nonsense, the more people see great parts, the more they want them - no-one covets what they don't see and can't afford.....but Jason and Alan mean that the appeal to THEM will reduce, the exclusive feeling - the basically selfish 'I have them and you don't' will vanish for which I feel rather sad for the pair and fondamentally arrogant.

i) I ought to note that after-sales service will be second to none, goods replaced or refunded if damaged in transit - I've not let down customers yet and not about to for wheels or other parts - I'm a Z owner too so I know what it's like the other side of the 'counter'

j) I tire of the continual ping-pong and tit for tat that you consistently offer so this is it for question time - you've had your 15mins and I have other fish to fry.

 

Lastly, I feel absolutely no obligation whatsoever to answer any of your questions or reply to your sarcasm and snidy comments.

 

These awesome wheels are on sale here at a great price or you can pay double and make Alan happy.

Morning Sean.

 

A) i don’t think we have Worked out the quality, they have testing marks on but is that a testing certificate you own or the original developers? You say to the same quality as m speed? I’m not saying they’re not, however how do you know they are?  What is the quality of m speeds?

to some of your other points, I DO NOT own a set of these wheels, so me wanting some special parts to stay special, it’s just that.  You just fundamentally do not get ‘it’.  I haven’t got the cash to buy originals, the 15x7 upsized repro’s, it’s not about money.

 the focus of money only belongs to one person on this thread

when I see these wheels on a number more Cars each year, the curb appeal does drop as it’s not so unusual.  I fear it’s a following of fashion and what a few think they should have/like.

 

[Sean Dezart]

17 minutes ago, Jason240z said:

A) i don’t think we have Worked out the quality, they have testing marks on but is that a testing certificate you own or the original developers? You say to the same quality as m speed? I’m not saying they’re not, however how do you know they are?  What is the quality of m speeds?

Good morning Jason- I hope you and the family are well.

So why do you care about the answers since you have no intention to buy any because a) you don't have the cash

20 minutes ago, Jason240z said:

when I see these wheels on a number more Cars each year, the curb appeal does drop as it’s not so unusual.  I fear it’s a following of fashion and what a few think they should have/like.

and b) for you now, they are mush less desirable ?

21 minutes ago, Jason240z said:

when I see these wheels on a number more Cars each year, the curb appeal does drop as it’s not so unusual.

 

39 minutes ago, Jason240z said:

it’s not about money.

 the focus of money only belongs to one person on this thread

 

No,  the subject of money is shared by two, Alan and myself ; Alan has consistently mentioned price and overheads.

 

Sure, I have quoted specific prices and I'm the only retailer who's also quoted wheel weights, published very complete photos to show them on a Z (ie what customers can expect upon their own cars), interior measurements for calculating brake-caliper space and remain rapidly reachable to answer all extra questions and supply freely a set of centre-hub stickers* that save the customer another $20 ! *Bear in mind that each wheel style has a different centre diameter - more production cost for me but still free for the customers !

I've been criticised for quoting 'reproduction' wheels and yet a reputable dealer in the States call them exactly that : https://jdm-car-parts.com/products/reproduction-fairlady-z432-magnesium-wheels-aluminum-wheel-sold-individually?variant=15223335747693

and....their description is particularly void of details and of consumer-confusing terminology :

• Reproduction Fairlady Z432 magnesium wheels Aluminum wheels 14” 5.5J +25 $599 Each
• Reproduction Fairlady Z432 magnesium wheels Aluminum wheels 14” 7J   -16 $650 Each

37 minutes ago, Jason240z said:

so me wanting some special parts to stay special, it’s just that.  You just fundamentally do not get ‘it’

I believe I do get 'it' ! You don't want to see more and more cars wearing these wheels because therefore these wheels are less "special". So in order for YOU to feel special, you would deny many others the opportunity to buy them !

I, on the other hand, want to satisfy as many peoples' wish to wear 'special' wheels, amongst other parts which is why I don't ask silly, greedy prices and let's be honest, if you ignore the omnipotent internet images, you're hardly yourself likely to drive past another Z with these on in Devon are you ?

Btw - how is your Z progressing, we see now news and updates ?

Cheers,

Sean

[Jason240z]

Yep, I have a mindset where i'm happy for me not to have them, also would prefer them not to be real 'open market'.  To me, they're more likely to hit the right cars, with the right overall feel. those that search them out, originality.  I can enjoy them from a distance.

I'm fortunate enough to have a couple of sets nice wheels, it'll have to stop there unless I ever found an original ZG, at which point I know what wheels I'd like that.

 

[HS30-H]

12 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

You'll need binoculars Alan.😄

At this point its looking like I'll need a microscope to be able to spot any sign of your rapidly diminishing reputation. Have you not got any close friends or family who will give you a reality check? Seriously, what has happened to you in the last couple of years?   

 

12 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

And how very typical of you to suggest that I have misunderstood when I read this from Jason "I'm possibly wrong but there's no such thing as z432-r versions, as they came with skinny little steel wheels?" Want to correct me or your padewan ?

Half of what you write doesn't make any sense. It's comes across on the page like some kind of stream-of-conciousness rant, setting up straw men and knocking them down whilst studiously avoiding the main points. You stated that Jason didn't know that a 7j version (you call it a '432-R' wheel) existed, but clearly he's known for several years since - as I pointed out - he borrowed an original 7j x 14" wheel from me to test fit on his car. You are wrong, right? 

The PS30-SB Nissan Fairlady Z432-R's standard specification wheel was the 4.5j x 14" TOPY pressed steel wheel, so Jason is indeed right. What you are calling '432-R' wheels were actually developed in 1969 by Nissan - and manufactured for them by Kobe Seiko - for use on their upcoming campaign in international rallying during 1970 and beyond. They have always been known in Japan as the 'Works Rally Mag'. You showed a photo of Nissan's first works 432-R race car in the paddock at Suzuka before its first race in January 1970 to support your assertion, but anyone at Nissan would have said that the 432-R was wearing 'Rally mags'. In January 1970 there was already a works rally 240Z testing in the south of France with multiple sets of the KS 'Rally Mag' on hand, and Dunlop Japan collaborating on tyre choices. Meanwhile, back in Japan, Kobe Seiko were working on 8-spoke magnesium wheels for the works 432-Rs...

 

So once again we do an elaborate dance just to get you straightened out on something that you misunderstood in the first place. If you were smart enough I'd suspect it was some kind of diversionary tactic - just like all this Alan & Jason 'tag team' nonsense (you can't even spell Padawan...) - but it isn't, is it? You're not waving, you're drowning.  

   

[HS30-H]

13 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

As far as I'm concerned, we've established

 

a) their origin and their quality level.

Neither. Unless you count 'China' and 'Aluminum' (Aluminium) as satisfactory.

13 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

b their sizes and weights, offsets, PCDs and CBs etc

Unless you (or the factory...) have changed anything, these are the same as the M-Speed Japan items. You seem to be bringing them to the table as though the sizes, weights, offsets, PCDs and centre bores were some kind of secret? They have always been available from M-Speed Japan, if you were to ask. You know, like a serious prospective buyer might...

 

13 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

c) that I'm selling a set of 4x 'in the style of Z432' wheels on this site to donating members at €1210 and at a public price of €1260 (both sumes including shipping - tracked and insured) with a choice of hub stickers and a white leather exclusive key-ring

d) that I'm selling a set of 4x 'in the style of Z432-R' works-wheels on this site to donating members at €1330 and at a public price of €1390 (both sumes including shipping - tracked and insured) with a choice of hub stickers and a white leather exclusive key-ring

Noted. Business seller in the small-ads. 

13 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

e) we can call them replicas, reproductions, fakes, knock-offs but they're still great wheels at a great price and over the years we've seen many copies of copies - American Racing, Vectors, Minilites, Panasports to name a few....

Noted. But it's hardly front page news, is it?

13 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

f) that Alan doesn't think it 'cool' to approach the factory from the FRONT door and ask to buy these wheels ; thics ? That is between M-Speed and the factory who agreed to sell them at the same rate that M-Speed pays. You can verify that with Jamel.

Ah, now we are getting down to the nitty gritty. You didn't really approach the factory by the front door though, did you? You ferreted out - via a Bulgarian kid who was selling wheels on Facebook - the Chinese casting foundry that M-Speed Japan contracted to make wheels for them. So without M-Speed Japan having supplied the IP and patterns, paid for the setup and prototyping, done all the R&D and everything else - including bringing these wheels to your attention in the first place - you would be nowhere, wouldn't you? M-Speed Japan had a contract with the Chinese foundry which the Chinese foundry now appears to have broken. You have opportunistically jumped in, and - without paying - you are taking advantage of everything that M-Speed Japan have done. 

What has "the same rate that M-Speed pays" got to do with it? You have no idea of M-Speed's costs, overheads or obligations. You are in no position to comment on M-Speed's situation. I find it hard to believe that you would write this stuff and put it in front of us. Seriously, have you not got anybody around you who you trust and who could advise you on what you are coming out with? Give your head a wobble or something.

13 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

g) that Alan doesn't want to see these wheels sold to the general public at affordable prices (forget what he thinks is fair in the JDM because they all cost a fortune there !)

I've already stated many times that I have NO problem with good quality 'replicas' (insert chosen term here) and have myself collaborated on a project which replicated the KS Rally Mag wheels in Magnesium (and in both 14" and scaled-up 15" versions), so I have a pretty good idea of the process, the work and overheads. This "Alan doesn't want..." thing is in your head, so you need to take responsibility for it yourself. It is nothing to do with me.

I've also lived and worked in Japan, with 30+ years of experience. I still work for a Japanese company, and my work involves sourcing, manufacturing and exporting of goods for the Japanese market. I know what it costs to make and source items in various territories, and what they get sold for in Japan (both retail and wholesale). Japanese prices take account of costs and overheads which you - clearly - have no idea of. You have accused M-Speed of "profiteering", but you are in no position to make such a judgment, are you? You've never even been to China to visit your suppliers, let alone Japan. M-Speed Japan are a legitimate business with staff and retail premises in Japan, and you are...?

13 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

h) that his writing companion, Jason, doesn't want to see you guys wearing these wheels either because ''the curb appeal would drop massively'' ; the more you see of these wheels on the roads, the less the appeal - nonsense, the more people see great parts, the more they want them - no-one covets what they don't see and can't afford.....but Jason and Alan mean that the appeal to THEM will reduce, the exclusive feeling - the basically selfish 'I have them and you don't' will vanish for which I feel rather sad for the pair and fondamentally arrogant.

Once again, all of this "writing companion" stuff exists only in your head. Two people saying stuff you don't like to you doesn't necessarily indicate a plot or conspiracy. In fact, it's very likely that Jason has a slightly different take on this compared to mine. And I've met you, used to consider you a friend, and wonder what happened to you lately... 

2 hours ago, Jason240z said:

i) I ought to note that after-sales service will be second to none, goods replaced or refunded if damaged in transit - I've not let down customers yet and not about to for wheels or other parts - I'm a Z owner too so I know what it's like the other side of the 'counter'

You're offering wheels which carry Japanese industry certification marks, but you cannot produce any evidence of these standards having been met. Where's the paperwork? What grade of alloy are these wheels made from? How can you guarantee that? What QC have they been subjected to? Who owns the IP, who paid for the set-up and moulds? What's the legal situation between M-Speed Japan and the foundry in China? What material are they painted/coated with? No answers.

I'm sure you'll sell some wheels, but it isn't real business is it?

14 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

j) I tire of the continual ping-pong and tit for tat that you consistently offer so this is it for question time - you've had your 15mins and I have other fish to fry.

You've been happy enough to return serve on any ball sent your way. Plenty of spin on your shots too. You're hardly innocent, despite painting yourself as some kind of weird combination of Robin Hood and Mother Theresa of Calcutta.

14 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

Lastly, I feel absolutely no obligation whatsoever to answer any of your questions or reply to your sarcasm and snidy comments.

LOL, followed by...

14 hours ago, Sean Dezart said:

These awesome wheels are on sale here at a great price or you can pay double and make Alan happy.

QED.

 

I'll say it again. You had the opportunity to do all this the right way, and make an approach to M-Speed Japan with a view to negotiating some kind of deal with regard to taking over supply of their product, or even a licensing/commission deal. You didn't. This is why I'm saying you went via 'The Back Door'. You make your Z-Story exhausts in China, so the same thing could easily happen to you. If your exhausts - which you supplied the IP for, and did all the groundwork to create - suddenly start turning up on Facebook and forums like this one, direct from the factory and neatly sidestepping you, I reckon we'd hear you squeak in protest. End-user won't care. Hopefully nobody here would want to be the middle man in such underhand activity.

Stay classy.         

[HS30-H]

One last thing. Some years ago I collaborated on a project to make good quality replicas of the Kobe Seiko Nissan Works 'Rally Mag' wheels here in the UK. The casting foundry chosen was a well-known English specialist which still makes parts for Formula One teams. Real craftsmen.

After the project, one well-known character (no names, no pack drill) approached the casting foundry and asked them to make a batch of wheels for him using the same patterns. He hadn't wanted to pay the full cost of the original batch despite having had the opportunity, but figured he could subsequently take advantage of other people having supplied the IP, paid for the casting patterns and undertaken all the testing and QC. He thought he was going to save himself a lot of money, and could sell wheels on to make a little profit on the side.

But - as any business with any class would have done - the casting foundry told him to take a hike, and to enquire with the owner of the IP and moulds, as the wheels were not the casting foundry's to sell.

Ethics, see?