Carbs.  Unresolved.

29 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

Replying to siteunseen's post -

I think that people might be able to hide their comments from public view also.  Several that I just read have disappeared from view.  Oh well.  BAT is actually more of a collector's club now, not really the "bring a trailer" auction site it started as.  

IdahoZ replied to Rodeo but only Rodeo can see it because he's registered.  It's a secret club now.

It's owned by and run by the Illuminati. 

I know the bidder of the $110k. I didn’t know he was going to bid, but I did point him back here to see what is being said. I think that he did. He purchased a BAT 280 awhile as a driver and is planning to back date the bumpers. He has always wanted a orange 70 to add to a couple Porsches and a Ferrari collection. He is real, not any part of a plan to raise the valve.

Edited October 16, 20204 yr by 7tooZ

Welcome Greggers13 and good luck.  Just trying to figure out what makes a car valuable and working on a good puzzle at the same time.  Sure would help to know more about the guy that bought it new and what he did with/to it.

Somebody, zweed, just bid it up by $1000.  Doesn't know how to play the game...

 

 

9 hours ago, 240260280 said:

It is more of: 30k and all these things had to be replaced?

Gotcha. Sorry.

In some instances, "age" is more of a factor than mileage. I guess I was giving them a pass on the brake booster as one of those.

6 hours ago, 26th-Z said:

Well!  For all your consideration of how the Wob was going to account for the carburetors, what you didn't consider is no answer at all.  Of course this speaks volumes but we are watching a sham anyway.  We all know it.  I find this all very entertaining.  The testimonials are vomitoriously delicious.

Right! And taking a cue from Arlo, there was a third possibility that we hadn't even counted upon.

"Yes, they are the three screw carbs and someone at the big important show already raised the question if they were correct. And at the big important show nobody knew for sure if it was right or not, so they gave it a nice trophy anyway. So with my trophy as evidence, I claim that they are the right carbs for the car."

I believe it's a variation on the 34th street defense.

He says that people had seen three screw carbs on 71 cars. Well no duh. The transition date (according to the admittedly little research I did) is August or September 71. I could see those cars could maybe be titled as either a 71 or a 72. But......

The car in question on BAT is a whole year BEFORE that!!  Door jamb plate says 8/70.

I'm nearly 100% certain that the intake manifolds are the E46 version that works with the four screw round tops. The three screw round tops were not matched to that manifold because of the coolant scheme. Instead, the three screw carbs were paired with the E88 intake manifolds. So my question is... What manifolds are on there? If they are three screw carbs bolted to the E46 manifolds, then shapes of the carb faces do not match and the coolant holes on the carbs are hanging open to the wind.

So it's a 70 head, a 70 block, 70 manifolds, 70 everything...... Except for the 72 carbs. Came from the factory like that.

Really?

Couple of question for the experts about this car. Picture #230 in the auction shows a very early oil pan. This was the pan that was susceptible to cracking from vibration which required a brazed patch reinforcement. Does anyone know when this pan was superseded with the newer design? An 8/70 car sounds a little too contemporary for this pan change.

Also, there was a question as to whether this should be a 1970 car as opposed to the auction stated 1971 car. 
The model year change over usually occurred  in august, and this is a 8/70 build.  That would tell me that this car could be either a ‘70 or ‘71 model year car.

Don’t want to be too nitpiky,  but I’m in the “too rough for a 31M mile car” camp.

9 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Right! And taking a cue from Arlo, there was a third possibility that we hadn't even counted upon.

"Yes, they are the three screw carbs and someone at the big important show already raised the question if they were correct. And at the big important show nobody knew for sure if it was right or not, so they gave it a nice trophy anyway. So with my trophy as evidence, I claim that they are the right carbs for the car."

I believe it's a variation on the 34th street defense.

He says that people had seen three screw carbs on 71 cars. Well no duh. The transition date (according to the admittedly little research I did) is August or September 71. I could see those cars could maybe be titled as either a 71 or a 72. But......

 

Yes, factory parts manuals state that the ('4-screw') HJG46W-3A carbs were used up to the end of 08-71, and the '3-screw' type was fitted from 09-71 up.

No doubt some people will be satisfied with the HVA award somehow proving that the car was 'preserved' enough in the opinion of judges, but I'd say a much more likely scenario is that they didn't really know enough to make an accurate judgment.

The carbs currently fitted to the car are at least a year later than its 08-70 build date.

1 hour ago, HS30-H said:

I'd say a much more likely scenario is that they didn't really know enough to make an accurate judgment.

The carbs currently fitted to the car are at least a year later than its 08-70 build date.

I'm no expert,  but that's my read as well.

And I don't think the carbs would even be that big of a deal if we knew what happened. I still suspect that sometime long ago, the carbs were sent off to be cleaned and tuned and all that, and the ones that came back aren't the same ones that were sent off. From what I gather, some of the big name players in the round top carb realm do that. You send them a pair, but the pair you get back are not necessarily the ones you sent them.

At this point, it's mostly the denial that gets me. The seller knows the car is worth more if it's that "beacon of originality", and hence, isn't giving up on that.

If I were a judging this car at a show in a high quality, high profile stock class, I would ding it for the wrong year carbs. I just hope the new owner understands that could happen to him. And a defense of "Well the guy I bought it from said they were OK." wouldn't change anything.

Haha! I think I'm going to stop talking about it... I don't think I'm adding value anymore.    

9 hours ago, AZ-240z said:

Couple of question for the experts about this car. Picture #230 in the auction shows a very early oil pan. This was the pan that was susceptible to cracking from vibration which required a brazed patch reinforcement. Does anyone know when this pan was superseded with the newer design? An 8/70 car sounds a little too contemporary for this pan change.

Also, there was a question as to whether this should be a 1970 car as opposed to the auction stated 1971 car. 
The model year change over usually occurred  in august, and this is a 8/70 build.  That would tell me that this car could be either a ‘70 or ‘71 model year car.

Don’t want to be too nitpiky,  but I’m in the “too rough for a 31M mile car” camp.

I'm not sure about the oil pan, but I do know that there were a number of late '70 model year 240Zs that were titled and licensed as a 1971. I recently sold my 7/70 240Z and it was titled as a 1971. The subject car was built in 8/70 and has the same story.  I know there are a few members here that have mentioned this as well about their cars.  I currently own an 8/71 and I used to have another 8/71 and both cars were both titled and licensed as 1971 cars.  I'm not sure if this was mostly a late 1970 model year issue or if this was also the case for later model 240Zs as well.  

Here's some backfill on the pre-2002 times, besides just the registration cards.  Apparently the car had been stored for three years before 1979.  So that's 30,000 miles in about 5 years, ~ 7/71 - 7/76.  So it had some driving done on it, about 6,000 miles / year.  Only about 7 years total on the road, as an actual driver.  These 5 plus 79 - 81.  Post 2002 was just "show"-driving.

There's also a list of parts, hoses, clamps, tuneup parts, etc.,  to go through.  For anyone working on the puzzle.  Picture #320.

Edited October 17, 20204 yr by Zed Head