31K Miles Series I 240Z Up for Auction on BaT - Over $100k on First Day!

[grannyknot]

1 hour ago, 26th-Z said:

And did you read about why the heater is blocked off?  Because the previous owner didn't want excessive heat in the cabin?

I've done the same thing on my car during the summer,  the engine coolant when at full temp will transfer that heat to the heater core and that radiates into the cab. Although I would not be surprised if the heater valve leaked as well.

27 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

Seems like the guys writing the BAT words weren't sure about the 31,000 miles either.  They say "shows" 31k, not has.

BaT always says "shows" unless the seller has rock solid documentation of the mileage.

That pristine drivers seat says 31,000 miles.

I'm not saying the car is this or that but with the price going higher and higher it is just a matter of time before cars that have been doctored start showing up.

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, a lot of individual parts "say" just 31000 miles, but to me, it looks like someone spent a whole lot of time trying to achieve that.

Like @inline6 above, I've got a whole host of "Yeah, but then why does this look like this?" situations all over the car. He hit some of them, but I've got others as well. Things like:

Dented frame rails, control arms, and floors.
Impossibly shiny clean yellow paint marks gratuitously applied on rusted hardware that has had the original plating stripped off.
Many other hardware pieces where the original plating has been stripped off or painted over with silver paint.
Adjustment witness marks on things that just should never have needed to be adjusted like the door latches.
Smeared screw heads on things that should have never needed to come off a 31K mile car like the hood prop arm.

I see a well kept Z wearing a well done, but many year old repaint. I see a beautiful Z that I would love to own, but I do not see a survivor.

[grannyknot]

19 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Impossibly shiny clean yellow paint marks gratuitously applied on rusted hardware that has had the original plating stripped off.

Yeah, that yellow paint sure looks pretty fresh doesn't it.

[Captain Obvious]

Yes. Way too fresh. Like someone put them there a few years ago when they learned they should be there. Like they took off the appropriately aged hardwares, blasted them shiny, put them back on, and then slathered on the yellow stripe to "look like it just came off the factory line". Problem is that when you blast the plating off hardware like that it rusts. Quickly.

There are some spots on the car that look their age. And it is my belief that it if weren't for significant clean-up and repainting efforts, the rest of the car would look like that too.

So are any of these questions being raised over at BAT? I didn't see anything. Maybe I'm the outlier and everyone else thinks the car is jaw dropping original.

[Zed Head]

I just see an old low mileage 240Z that was in storage for a really long time.  A closer read of the BAT listing shows that it was essentially in "storage" from 1981 to 2017.  36 years.  It went to a museum in 2002.  They probably did some touchup, you'd think.  So, basically, everyone should imagine that it's 1981 and you're looking at a 1971 240Z.  A ten year old 240Z with 31,000 miles on the odometer.  Ten years to collect some dings and have various repair shops working on it for whatever reason.  

Seems like the FIVA award and the attention to describing the rusty bolt heads and the paint thickness are having the opposite effect.  They're overplaying the rarity.  Too much selling.

Funnily enough, I just watched some of the Back to the Future movies.  Imagine...it's 1981 and you have a chance to buy a low mileage 1971 240Z.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Zed Head
Can't add.

[HS30-H]

6 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

So are any of these questions being raised over at BAT? I didn't see anything. Maybe I'm the outlier and everyone else thinks the car is jaw dropping original.

It appears that many comments are vetted by admin and weeded out before publication, whilst certain 'known' characters get free reign and treat BaT like it is their own personal club. 

Some of the loudest voices on there clearly don't know their stuff. This 'MRM' character bumped up the bidding by 85k in one bid, then passed comment on it being a '200k car'. Is it only me that finds this kind of behaviour totally lacking in credibility? This is not the technique of a smart buyer, nor the action of an informed marque enthusiast.

Apparently this same guy owns the 432 that just won an award at ZCON 2020, so it figures that he doesn't actually know what he's looking at. Seems like the ZCON judges don't either. These are all symptoms of a bubble that is inflating too quickly.

[26th-Z]

One must be carefully polite on BaT so as not to violate the first rule of automotive admiration; "don't ever badmouth someone else's car".  Of course, we do this all the time on this site, sometimes mounting to a shouting match, but this site is different.  We are knowledge based and not bidding on cars.  Consider the BaT conversation held in the sales lot with a bunch of people hanging around to watch the sale of a car.  That picture isn't what I would consider happening on this site.  We discuss cars with no real anticipation of someone profiting from our comments.  I can't imaging posting a list like Inline6's on BaT even though I agree with most if not all of his items.  Thanks for making that list!  I see those service records, too, and want to comment about the amount of work performed on a 31,000 mile car.  The poor thing has a bent frame rail and a bent control arm!  31,000 miles?  On a Datsun?  Showing that much 'service' damage?

[DC871F]

5 hours ago, HS30-H said:

It appears that many comments are vetted by admin and weeded out before publication, whilst certain 'known' characters get free reign and treat BaT like it is their own personal club. 

Some of the loudest voices on there clearly don't know their stuff. This 'MRM' character bumped up the bidding by 85k in one bid, then passed comment on it being a '200k car'. Is it only me that finds this kind of behaviour totally lacking in credibility? This is not the technique of a smart buyer, nor the action of an informed marque enthusiast.

Apparently this same guy owns the 432 that just won an award at ZCON 2020, so it figures that he doesn't actually know what he's looking at. Seems like the ZCON judges don't either. These are all symptoms of a bubble that is inflating too quickly.

All normal in the 21st century. If you notice with popular or infamous topics in the news lately,  everyone is an "expert", the louder they are, the expertyness they are.

[Captain Obvious]

And here's something that has been bugging me that I just put my finger on... Those are not the original carbs on that car.

The carbs on there now are from 72  and are three screw round tops. Original unmolested, survivor, "time capsule", huh?

So when the listing says "The numbers-matching 2.4L L24 inline-six was factory rated at 150 horsepower at 5,600 rpm and 146 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm. During current ownership, the carburetors have been cleaned and adjusted"

So that may all be "true"... The block may be the original block, and the current carbs may have been cleaned and adjusted, but that doesn't mention the fact that the sometime in the past, the original carbs have been removed and replaced with a different set from a different year.

So with just 31K miles, I ask... "Why? And by whom?" I didn't look through all the receipts and records of work done. Is there mention of that anywhere?

[Terrapin Z]

I too have issues with a lot of thing on this car as being 31K miles and original. While it is in good shape I don't see it being a $100k + specimen.

Along with all the items mentioned above, was there talk of the Master cylinders? Clutch and Brake I missed?. You can still buy more correct looking Tokico's from Nissan. 

Aren't the seats on the wrong sides? Shouldn't the adjuster knobs be to the inside?

So many little things I am not going to list, best of luck to the buyer, I hope it suits their needs and budget.

[Zed Head]

Somebody at this place, Malamut Auto Museum, must know something.  "Wob" bought it from there, apparently.  Odd that it's in Thousand Oaks CA, but the car was titled in Nevada.  A way around CA titling problems, probably.  The "Museum" (basically just Mike Malamut's huge car collection), has a different 1970 240Z.  Maybe the replacement for the one on BAT.  Anybody know Mike Malamut?  Or Wob?

Doesn't really seem like a survivor, more like a reviver.  Brought back from the dead.  Probably in pretty crusty shape after the first 21 years of storage.

http://malamutautomuseumfoundation.org/the-collection/japanese/

http://malamutautomuseumfoundation.org/

https://www.facebook.com/Malamut-Auto-Museum-1122168147860406/

 

[motorman7]

17 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

  Anybody know Mike Malamut?  Or Wob?

I know Mike pretty well.  We see each other at a lot at the same shows.  Usually we are competing against each other in the Japanese category.   He does a lot to promote the Japanese car category at the higher end Auto shows which is a good thing. He typically manages the Japanese class for the San Marino motor show and is often down this way at the La Jolla car shows and at JCCS. He is pretty pleasant and honest and does a lot to support the Japanese cars.

I think I met Wob briefly at the San Marino show where I also saw this car.  The owner (Wob?) left his lot boy with the car and the lot boy knew very little about what original Z cars are supposed to look like, so there wasn't much to talk about.  Sounded like Wob had a lot of nicer cars such as Ferrari's and Porsche's per the lot boy.  Owner (Wob?) showed up at the end of the show, asked lot boy if they'd won an award and then told him to load up the car.  Car did not place FWIW.