how to sell original series I 240z?

[orangecounty240z]

OK thanks I'll see what he thinks.

[lonetreesteve]

919 Sunshine Yellow is such a great color for a 240Z!  A one owner car with less than 90k original miles, documentation and its original matching-numbers engine will certainly help the value of your dad's 240Z.  As zeeboost mentions in his earlier post, a similar '70 919 Yellow 240Z with a little over 100k miles which the 2nd owner had the car for 49 years that is in better condition than your dad's and sold in a very competitive auction in July for $43.5k. The car also has a lower VIN of HLS30-02207, which made that car even more desirable. 

To be honest, it is going to be tough to find a set of 1970 steel wheels that have a date stamp that would be correct for a 6/70 manufacture date. 1970 date-stamped steel wheels have become very expensive. However, there are currently a couple of Series I cars on BaT that have later date stamped steel wheels and I don't think they affect the value too much. Since your dad still has the car's original D wheel covers and you live in LA, you should be able to find a decent set of steel wheels for your dad's car.  

Edited October 18, 2020 by lonetreesteve

[orangecounty240z]

Thanks, I'll start looking. Where does one find a set for sale, craigslist and ebay? Or are there specialty sites for these?

[Carl Beck]

Hi orangecounty240Z - your Dad has a wonderful 240Z and I’m happy that he has enjoyed for 50+ years. It is actually amazing how many people purchased their Datsun 240Z new from the Dealer, and kept them to this day.  There are about 189 of them listed on the “Z Car Original Owners Register” on the Z Car Home Page. Most likely twice that many out there still not Registered.  Speaks volumes about the desirability of the Datsun 240Z’s from 48+ years ago.

http://www.zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/original.htm

 

We would have to see a lot more detailed pictures of your Z - to give any real estimate related to its market value. Engine Compartment, dash, interior etc.

 

With what we know - a ROM - $25K to $35K as it sits. Other than a good detailing, I wouldn’t put any more money into it, as it won’t seriously effect its sale price in the market. Actually most serious buyers would rather fix whatever they want, the way they want. They would rather see it “as is” than worry about “cover-ups”, or “cheap fixes”.   (not saying you would do any of that - just pointing out the skepticism in any used car market).

 

The paint flaking on the hood - that is just paint peeling off of the galvanized sheet metal, usually see it on the firewall as well.  The cracking of the paint in the rear deck area - that is just the tar mat heat&sound insulation shrinking with 50 years of age - quit normal. 

[orangecounty240z]

Thanks, what does ROM mean retail open market?

So it'll only sell for around $30000? I wish I'd done more research before telling my parents it was worth a lot, looks like I got them excited over nothing 😕

[Carl Beck]

1 minute ago, orangecounty240z said:

Thanks, what does ROM mean retail open market?

So it'll only sell for around $30000? I wish I'd done more research before telling my parents it was worth a lot, looks like I got them excited over nothing 😕

 

Guestimates: 

MOR - More Or Less

ROM  = Rough Order of Magnitude

SWAG = Swinging Wild arse Guess 

 

A “little” a “lot” are relative terms. To me, it is worth a lot - how many people have $30,000.00 in savings? For that matter how many people can plunk down $30K for a fun purchase? Regardless, the fact is you did the research and now both you and your Parents are in a better position - should any need to actually sell the Z arise.  That's a Good Thing.

[orangecounty240z]

Thanks for your help everyone, here are the new pics I was able to get. I didn't know the driver seat had damage, I've never seen it without a cover on.

I talked it over with my dad and I don't think he's willing to do any work on it. He did remember how to work the radio and it works. I'm willing to handle this for him and my current thought is to do external work + repaint hood completely + fix driver's seat. The rest of the interior looks good to my novice eyes other than fading in the carpet (rubber mats were laid on top of the carpet mats in the footwells leaving outlines; the hatch carpet is badly faded except for lines where the straps were). The engine runs great according to him and has never had work besides the usual carb tuning, oil changes, hose replacements, etc. so I'd rather not take it out. There are lots of original parts I don't think will survive a remove and reinstallation such as hoses, clamps, etc. The dash has never been out and I'm not able to do so, so the tach and clock and heater (probably, unless it can be fixed in the engine bay) will remain non working.

Exterior work: flatten out the door dents. Remove all surface rust. Repaint leaving glass in - all the original rubber looks in good shape but I don't think will survive a glass out repaint; even the windshield has never been out. Try to remove oxidation on the chrome, if not possible, get the bumpers rechromed - other chrome parts aren't really oxidized just not bright and shiny.

Do you think this is a good plan or a bad idea and should go for a full restore, which I've gotten quoted at $60k? That restorer was kind enough to say it probably isn't worth it; the car currently is worth under $40k in his opinion and after restore I'd have to be very lucky to get near $100k.

[Patcon]

I would never repaint a car like this with out removing the glass. It leaves rough areas around all the seals and the paint tends to peal from those exposed edges

If it were me, I would try to sell it as is. Put a reserve on it and see what it does

i would not be surprised to see a bill of 60k to fully restore a car like this

[orangecounty240z]

Hm. That's good to know. So it's impossible to get a good paint job without removing the glass?

Yeah, $60k is exactly the quote I got! 😄  For a full nut and bolt restoration. I just don't like the idea of doing that since in my opinion it's mechanically in good shape and cosmetically only really has problems on the outside surfaces.

[Patcon]

If you can sell it for 35k as it sits or spend 60k and sell it for 95k then why bother? It's the same net cash either way.

In my opinion it is impossible to get a quality paint job without stripping the car

[orangecounty240z]

Thanks. Yes and that 95 is speculative, depending on if anyone really wants it, it could end up being 50 for all anyone knows.

Hm. Ok, I'm a novice in this area, and working on cars in general. I am physically fit and mechanically inclined, I'm usually able to figure out how things work. If I had space to work on it indefinitely, would someone with this background be able to disassemble the car to get it prepped for paint, and assuming I take copious notes and pics and bag and label everything, put it back together after?  My dad MAY pitch in once in a while for things that need two people. How much space is needed? i'm guessing at least a two car garage, one place for the car and another for the parts but that could be too small?

Edited October 31, 2020 by orangecounty240z

[Carl Beck]

47 minutes ago, orangecounty240z said:

Thanks for your help everyone, here are the new pics I was able to get. I didn't know the driver seat had damage, I've never seen it without a cover on.

I talked it over with my dad and I don't think he's willing to do any work on it. He did remember how to work the radio and it works. I'm willing to handle this for him and my current thought is to do external work + repaint hood completely + fix driver's seat. The rest of the interior looks good to my novice eyes other than fading in the carpet (rubber mats were laid on top of the carpet mats in the footwells leaving outlines; the hatch carpet is badly faded except for lines where the straps were). The engine runs great according to him and has never had work besides the usual carb tuning, oil changes, hose replacements, etc. so I'd rather not take it out. There are lots of original parts I don't think will survive a remove and reinstallation such as hoses, clamps, etc. The dash has never been out and I'm not able to do so, so the tach and clock and heater (probably, unless it can be fixed in the engine bay) will remain non working.

Exterior work: flatten out the door dents. Remove all surface rust. Repaint leaving glass in - all the original rubber looks in good shape but I don't think will survive a glass out repaint; even the windshield has never been out. Try to remove oxidation on the chrome, if not possible, get the bumpers rechromed - other chrome parts aren't really oxidized just not bright and shiny.

Do you think this is a good plan or a bad idea and should go for a full restore, which I've gotten quoted at $60k? That restorer was kind enough to say it probably isn't worth it; the car currently is worth under $40k in his opinion and after restore I'd have to be very lucky to get near $100k

 

After seeing some additional pictures, I will repeat my advice from above - -  "Other than a good detailing, I wouldn’t put any more money into it, as it won’t seriously effect its sale price in the market. Actually most serious buyers would rather fix whatever they want, the way they want. They would rather see it “as is” than worry about “cover-ups”, or “cheap fixes”.   (not saying you would do any of that - just pointing out the skepticism in any used car market)."

Looking at the additional pictures - - I'll add, messing with such an original condition 240Z - can actually reduce its value to the most serious collectors. They will not only have to address its minor flaws, they will first have to pay their professional restorers to undo what ever you have done. They will pay more for a car that hasn't been messed with..

If you want to help your Dad get the highest dollar value, I would say spend your time and money getting clear high resolution pictures of every detail. Get that Z up on a lift and get pictures of the undercarriage, lots of pictures of the most common rust areas. Take the battery out and get clear pictures of the area under the battery.  Pay a professional photographer to provide good high resolution well lite images if you have to, pay someone to put the car up on a lift so you can get great pictures.  IMHO that would be the best time and money you could spend on the Z. 

Go look at the Series I 240Z that sell on BAT - read the comments - you will see that the cars that sell for the most have a couple things in common - 1) 150 to 200 great pictures and 2) a seller that stays on  top of answering questions and responding to requests. To get the most value out of a 50 year old Classic Car - you have to put the most effort into SELLING IT. 

Good luck,

Carl B.