Z's on BAT and other places collection

[CW240Z72]

42 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

...which would - if you believe two of the vaunted 'gurus' in the BaT comments - have left the seller with a $25k+ sized black hole on "restoration costs" they assured us must have been incurred.

Over-hyping by these heavily invested characters does not - in my opinion - help.    

Definitely a good amount of hyping in the comments as an attempt to boost bids. I do agree with some, it's very difficult to do a factory restoration and not touch 6 figures of investment. Even if you are able to do most the work yourself, you can't get away from a full blown restoration with less than 1000 hours poured into the process.

Value your time at the lowest shop rate you can find, plus just part costs, and it's amazing what it truly costs to build up one of these cars today.  

[HS30-H]

But since when has (as mentioned in the BaT comments) the rather slippery concept of a "95+ Point Concours Restoration" become the standard by which a respectably refreshed daily/occasional driver level car should be valued?

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't count the hours the work on my cars takes. It's a pleasure I'm happy to pay for when I can afford it. I don't tot up the hours I spend drinking beer, reading books or listening to good music either.

I reckon many (most!) of the cars I've owned and sold have been negative equity propositions if judged purely in monetary terms. Well, so what? I enjoyed them when they were enjoyable, and was frustrated by the ones that let me down. That's the hobby. But the narrative from these over-invested grifters is that the only way is up, and they appear to judge the success/failure of ownership on whether they've made more than anyone else by bailing out at the right time.

They're not connoisseurs, they're braggards. They don't hype these sales for the love and understanding of the cars.  

[xs10shl]

4 hours ago, HS30-H said:

...which would - if you believe two of the vaunted 'gurus' in the BaT comments - have left the seller with a $25k+ sized black hole on "restoration costs" they assured us must have been incurred.

Over-hyping by these heavily invested characters does not - in my opinion - help.    

Agreed on all points! It was IMHO a very nice example, well presented by it's owner, which probably needed another $20K in parts and work to bring it up a level. Simple things, such as installing the correct hose clamps during a proper engine concours prep, would go a long way towards a better presentation.  The buyer who pays in the $70k+ range is probably not going to care that an aftermarket AC was installed and removed, but will likely care that there are now several holes in the center console as a result. Leaving it for the next guy to repair is fine (and was properly disclosed), but leaving it as-is will affect current value.

Getting money back on a full concours restoration on a car worth less than $500,000 typically only has a chance to work if you do most of the work yourself, you value your own time at $0/hour or less, and ignore the cost-of-money calculations.  I've lost many $$ this way restoring cars too inexpensive to recoup the costs, but I can attest to the fact that it feels good to openly say otherwise, and lie about the financials. I keep telling my friends the same BS stories about how "I broke even" or "made a few bucks" - it makes me feel better about spending money, like a fool! :^)

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by xs10shl

[inline6]

I don't care for the comments from the peanut gallery of restorers on these auctions either, especially regarding current valuations, or future valuations, or costs to restore.  It is a good entertainment experience to see a nice car or one that is a nice restoration candidate, presented well in the media supplied by the seller, and to see an engaged seller answering questions from interested buyers.      

[motorman7]

Decided I would add my thoughts on this auction since it's free to post here (more comments from the peanut gallery).

I was wondering if the guy who mentioned the '95+ Concours restoration' ever entered a Z in a car show.  ZCCA judges on a 300 point scale, and most Concours judges have no clue what they are looking at when it comes to original Z's. An old Z sage once told me you could tell the judges that Z's came stock with V8 engines and blacked out engine bays and they would believe you. I have been in enough shows, ZCON's and Concours, to know that this is not far from the truth. 

Personally I thought the silver Z that sold a bit earlier for 36k was a better and more valuable car than this red Z. There were too many unfinished items on this car. The silver car was all there, very complete and original.

I would have put the the value of this Z in the $50-60k range. 

As to restoration costs, someone who says it's near $100k has never restored a Z or is getting taken. My Z restorations for customers have been in the $50-60k range and are well documented on this site. If you do it all yourself it's even less, free labor.  

Most importantly, as mentioned earlier,  it's good entertainment. Some people get a bargain (silver Z), some people get taken. 

Just my thoughts

[Patcon]

Superb, Rich!

[HS30-H]

7 hours ago, motorman7 said:

I was wondering if the guy who mentioned the '95+ Concours restoration' ever entered a Z in a car show.  ZCCA judges on a 300 point scale, and most Concours judges have no clue what they are looking at when it comes to original Z's. An old Z sage once told me you could tell the judges that Z's came stock with V8 engines and blacked out engine bays and they would believe you. I have been in enough shows, ZCON's and Concours, to know that this is not far from the truth. 

You can ask him, as I have a hunch (just a hunch....) that we know him very well here on classiczcars.com 😉

 

[26th-Z]

As to restoration costs, someone who says it's near $100k has never restored a Z or is getting taken. My Z restorations for customers have been in the $50-60k range and are well documented on this site. If you do it all yourself it's even less, free labor. 

Couldn't agree more.  I thought the red car was nice but I have seen nicer.  It should have sold. 

[CW240Z72]

9 hours ago, motorman7 said:

Decided I would add my thoughts on this auction since it's free to post here (more comments from the peanut gallery).

I was wondering if the guy who mentioned the '95+ Concours restoration' ever entered a Z in a car show.  ZCCA judges on a 300 point scale, and most Concours judges have no clue what they are looking at when it comes to original Z's. An old Z sage once told me you could tell the judges that Z's came stock with V8 engines and blacked out engine bays and they would believe you. I have been in enough shows, ZCON's and Concours, to know that this is not far from the truth. 

Personally I thought the silver Z that sold a bit earlier for 36k was a better and more valuable car than this red Z. There were too many unfinished items on this car. The silver car was all there, very complete and original.

I would have put the the value of this Z in the $50-60k range. 

As to restoration costs, someone who says it's near $100k has never restored a Z or is getting taken. My Z restorations for customers have been in the $50-60k range and are well documented on this site. If you do it all yourself it's even less, free labor.  

Most importantly, as mentioned earlier,  it's good entertainment. Some people get a bargain (silver Z), some people get taken. 

Just my thoughts

$50K-$60K to do a ground up restoration for someone else and make enough money to keep the lights on? Maybe 10 years ago, for a driver quality build, but not today.
 

I don’t want to derail this thread for what it was originally intended for, but you can easily eat up that amount or close to it in part costs alone today - if you’re going for 100% factory spec. Ask me how I know… 

I can’t see getting one of these cars restored with less than 1000 man hours into it. I understand your time is free, but that is still value added. Think about the guy who can’t do body work or interior work. That’s A LOT to fork up in labor alone that he’ll have to pay. 
 

I build up these cars because I like them and enjoy the community. I agree most BaT keyboard jockeys are not in the comments because they love the cars, and do try to fluff up the audience and facilitate a bidding war. 

 

[siteunseen]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/561518308512424/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A29189c43-2a84-498b-b5c2-c77c7f4392b7

[dutchzcarguy]

Nice rims for the z! (Advert saying 240sx !!  🙈   so he/she must be very knowledgeable about these cars..)

I wanted to know if these rims are also left and right side like the original 300zxtt rims.. they have a patern that is different on the right but there was no pic of the righthandside..😟

[Terrapin Z]

1 hour ago, dutchzcarguy said:

Nice rims for the z! (Advert saying 240sx !!  🙈   so he/she must be very knowledgeable about these cars..)

Mart, the thing about FB is most people don't know that to put some car make and models in the ad, you have to scroll all the way to the bottom and select "other' it will then let you type in what you really have. Most just pick from the list and try to get close. 240SX comes up a lot for the Z's.