Z's on BAT and other places collection

[dutchzcarguy]

Bluez got the blue's 😉  ??

 

[bluez]

No Blue’s here. This car shows very nice and was restored to a high degree.

[CanTechZ]

6 hours ago, bartsscooterservice said:

I know it's been re-painted Mart, I just find it crazy someone is willing to pay 70k for something that isn't correct or close as it came from the factory. I never saw any car from that era with wheel wells and the whole underside painted in the body color.  It does so on modern cars. I see a trend last years that people do that when restoring a classic, and I just think it looks ridiculous. It may be nice if you have a fetish for shiny underside parts. 

Early 240Z's did come from the factory with body color paint on the underside. Most in my area got dealer applied black undercoating of some type. My 7/70 car #6521 got the very thick tar like undercoating which I have removed during my restoration exposing original 918 orange paint throughout. On my car I found that under the 918 paint the front wheel wells and the transmission tunnel, front to rear, plus between and including the underfloor frame rails, got a very heavy dark charcoal grey primer. The top coat of paint in these areas is very thin and the dark grey color shows through, especially in the transmission tunnel. The area under the floors and the rear wheel wells had a lighter blueish grey primer and the top orange coat was much closer to the upper exposed surfaces. Here are some pics of mine.

Edited June 19, 2022 by CanTechZ

[Carl Beck]

6 hours ago, bartsscooterservice said:

I know it's been re-painted Mart, I just find it crazy someone is willing to pay 70k for something that isn't correct or close as it came from the factory. 

 

A 240Z restored to "as close as it came from the factory”, ie Condition #1 - will cost you $150K+ today. A little farther away, that being with say 10 judging points deducted from a possible 100, would be in the $125K range. (one just sold earlier in that price range, with some owner selected modifications).

 

The restoration work on the one that sold for $70K+ would take a year or two of the owners work,  and an addition $60K to $80K to duplicate, on top of the purchase price of the car to start with.  $70K for 240Z in that condition was a bargain today.

[bartsscooterservice]

15 hours ago, Carl Beck said:

 

A 240Z restored to "as close as it came from the factory”, ie Condition #1 - will cost you $150K+ today. A little farther away, that being with say 10 judging points deducted from a possible 100, would be in the $125K range. (one just sold earlier in that price range, with some owner selected modifications).

 

The restoration work on the one that sold for $70K+ would take a year or two of the owners work,  and an addition $60K to $80K to duplicate, on top of the purchase price of the car to start with.  $70K for 240Z in that condition was a bargain today.

Well Carl, the market in the US seems totally different for what people over the pond here are willing to pay for a 240z then

[Zedyone_kenobi]

On 5/23/2022 at 5:17 PM, Terrapin Z said:

 

The ad says Chevy V8, which I thought was amusing given the license plate frame. 

 

 

definitely a mopar.  The Valve cover bolts are wrong for a chevy, as is the water pump location and bolt pattern.   

[Carl Beck]

On 6/20/2022 at 3:14 AM, bartsscooterservice said:

Well Carl, the market in the US seems totally different for what people over the pond here are willing to pay for a 240z then

I am not at all current on 240Z values in the Netherlands nor most of Europe - however I do know that Chris Visscher at S30 World on Facebook - has spent a small fortune restoring several 240Z’s. I’m sure he expects to get at least $150K+ for the cars they complete.  The war in Europe may put a serious damper on the economy, which in turn will lower all Classic Car values for some time… nonetheless the 240Z’s are relatively inexpensive as 50+ year old classic Sports Cars go.

[HS30-H]

13 hours ago, Carl Beck said:

I am not at all current on 240Z values in the Netherlands nor most of Europe - however I do know that Chris Visscher at S30 World on Facebook - has spent a small fortune restoring several 240Z’s. I’m sure he expects to get at least $150K+ for the cars they complete.

My impression was that he's restoring cars for his own collection.

How do you know they are going to be sold?

[26th-Z]

I think Carl is intending "expected value" rather than an intention of sale value.  I also think Carl premised fairly well as that would be around my "expected value" of my cars.  Chris is showing us really nice workmanship.

"The restoration work on the one that sold for $70K+ would take a year or two of the owners work,  and an addition $60K to $80K to duplicate, on top of the purchase price of the car to start with.  $70K for 240Z in that condition was a bargain today."

$80 - $100K in my opinion.  Plus the original cost of the car.

Edited June 24, 2022 by 26th-Z

[zspert]

Gotta make a coupla observations based on my experience. I was a Datsun dealer mechanic, no, not a technician or "tech" - a mechanic, from the early summer of 1970 until about 1980. ALL of the new Datsuns sold at the dealers where I was employed until about 1976 or so did not have undercoating from the factory and were, therefore, body color underneath. The paint applied at the factory to the bottom of the 240s, 510s, 1200, 610s, 710s, roadsters and trucks was very inconsistent from one area to another. It might be pretty OK here but thin over there. Lots of orange peel here and a bit of dirt in the paint over there. Whoa, yes, I know the trucks and roadsters had separate frames, painted a rather thin black, but the bottom sheet metal was body color. Sorry to say I undercoated lots and lots of the same cars. I seem to remember getting paid .3/hour labor for every one I did usually as the finale of the PDI (per delivery inspection) which paid additionally depending on the model.

Flash forward a number of years to my shop where I've/we've done a number of 240 restorations to ZCCA Gold Medallion standards. I hope to notch my fourth at the convention this summer. In each case I've asked the owner if he wants his restoration to reflect the way it rolled off the truck at the dealership or the contemporary standard. Before he answers me I show him the many detailed pictures I keep on file of original unmodified Zs. Remember, these pictures show details like glue running down from grommets and orange peel in enamel paint. I think you can guess the answer I always get. Carl, you're very close on your estimate of the current cost of such an undertaking.  Yes, there are cheaper prices being quoted all over the place but those units will NEVER be in the running for the top prizes or pass inspection from snobs like me who have seen just about every shade of half assed restorations.

The big problem I see going forward is parts. The highest level restorations require fast disappearing goodies. Just the elementary stuff like correct spark plug wire sets, exhaust system components, battery cables, wiper blades, etc. can only be had by beating the bushes really really hard and paying a ton of money. Here's one I hear all the time - well, someone should reproduce that, if they do they'll get rich! NO, NO it doesn't happen that way. I know from my very extensive experience that reproduction, after you spend a LOT of time finding a manufacturer willing to make that widget for you, is VERY expensive. One example, for several years I've been shopping around looking for a domestic manufacturer willing and able to manufacture correct battery cables. Finally found one but the fixed costs would be about 40K for 240 positive and negative cables. Another example, 77/78 280 front and rear bumper ends, 10k for the mold and you would need 4. Chris @ S30 World, my hat is off to you and I sincerely hope you live to a healthy very old age! I know you have a TON of $ invested in your very nice tanks. PS, best of luck with your hand brake cables. 

Yes, his cars are for his personal collection.

It's late and I'm getting sleepy.

 

 

 

[Namerow]

 

8 hours ago, zspert said:

ALL of the new Datsuns sold at the dealers where I was employed until about 1976 or so did not have undercoating from the factory and were, therefore, body color underneath. The paint applied at the factory to the bottom of the 240s, 510s, 1200, 610s, 710s, roadsters and trucks was very inconsistent from one area to another. It might be pretty OK here but thin over there. Lots of orange peel here and a bit of dirt in the paint over there.

To illustrate zspert's points, here are a couple of photos of VIN 19769 (01/71), taken from the nicely-documented BaT listing when the car was up for sale in 2016.  Both paint and lack of paint are in evidence, depending on the location on the underside.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Namerow

[Carl Beck]

On 6/24/2022 at 5:55 AM, HS30-H said:

My impression was that he's restoring cars for his own collection.

How do you know they are going to be sold?

Prior to the Covid shut down, Chis was planning on shipping a Z to me, which would have been offered for sale once it was already in the US.  Most of his Z’s he is doing for his collection, however as people get into the hobby their specific interests or priorities change and they adjust their inventory.