Z's on BAT and other places collection

[bartsscooterservice]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:03 PM, HS30-H said:

Series is 'S30':

Yes, I know I know....

The '' factory designation '' yes..  Like an example.. BMW called it's 3 series  " E36 " in the 90's for instance, or like Mercedes called the 190 model the " W201 "

In common language for the average folks, it's simply a Datsun 240Z, 260Z or 280Z ( S30 )

Edited September 14, 2022 by bartsscooterservice

[HS30-H]

4 minutes ago, bartsscooterservice said:

The '' factory designation '' yes..  Like an example.. BMW called it's 3 series  " E36 " in the 90's for instance, or like Mercedes called the 190 model the " W201 "

You've got at least some of that the wrong way around.

BMW '3-series' (like '5-series' and '7-series' etc) is used in the same way that (for example) Mopar used 'A-body' and 'B-body' to denote platform type/size. Hence they carry it across different generations of Series (E21, E30, E36, E46, E90/91/92/93 etc).

Similarly, W201 is a Mercedes generation for a particular class of product. The sequence was W121, W110, W201, W202 etc.

The whole point about Nissan's S30-series is that it was a series from launch, but people use variant names from within that series as though they are a series themselves. Hence '240Z' instead of HLS30/HS30 and their sub-variants, '260Z' instead of RLS30/RS30/GRLS30/GS30 and their sub-variants, and not even a thought to S30/PS30.

Nissan's system made sense and was used across its whole range. The 'base' model in a series was usually the series denominator, hence C10-series Skyline and C10 model, S30-series Z and S30 model.

 

[HS30-H]

30 minutes ago, bartsscooterservice said:

In common language for the average folks, it's simply a Datsun 240Z, 260Z or 280Z ( S30 )

And that's the problem...

[bartsscooterservice]

23 hours ago, HS30-H said:

You've got at least some of that the wrong way around.

BMW '3-series' (like '5-series' and '7-series' etc) is used in the same way that (for example) Mopar used 'A-body' and 'B-body' to denote platform type/size. Hence they carry it across different generations of Series (E21, E30, E36, E46, E90/91/92/93 etc).

Similarly, W201 is a Mercedes generation for a particular class of product. The sequence was W121, W110, W201, W202 etc.

The whole point about Nissan's S30-series is that it was a series from launch, but people use variant names from within that series as though they are a series themselves. Hence '240Z' instead of HLS30/HS30 and their sub-variants, '260Z' instead of RLS30/RS30/GRLS30/GS30 and their sub-variants, and not even a thought to S30/PS30.

Nissan's system made sense and was used across its whole range. The 'base' model in a series was usually the series denominator, hence C10-series Skyline and C10 model, S30-series Z and S30 model.

 

Your saying the same but in a more difficult way .

 

[HS30-H]

7 hours ago, bartsscooterservice said:

Your saying the same but in a more difficult way .

 

Not really.

And if you approve of people using '240Z', '260Z' or '280Z' in situations where 'S30-series Z' is more appropriate, then we are definitely on different wavelengths.

[DC871F]

On 9/12/2022 at 8:09 PM, HS30-H said:

I can see why the vernacular 'Series 1' etc thing came about, but I think the word 'Series' was probably not a good choice seeing as 'Series' was already defined by NIssan with 'S30 Series'.

Additionally, the 'Series 1' etc nomenclature seems to be a moveable feast open to misuse, mistake and misnomer. The Human Element, I guess. It also does not apply neatly (to say the least...) to market variants that are not USA/Canada models.

On the contrary. They do. It's the American 'Model Year' thing that doesn't work very well elsewhere.

I'm also wary of applying such nomenclature to Japanese cars in general. Sure, Nissan and the other Japanese manufacturers made great efforts to comply with the American 'Model Year' system and apply/inform of certain changes in line with that, but that doesn't mean that their non-USA market output follows suit. 

The whole thing seems to have been badly applied and open to misuse. Look at how much talk there is on here and Bring A Trailer about the anomalies and inconsistencies in (stated) Model Years vs (stated) Production Dates. It seems like there was a huge gulf of intent between a car rolling off the line at the Hiratsuka plant and it being sold by a dealer in the USA and, despite the best efforts of everyone at Nissan Japan, the dealers were almost free to do what they liked. There are parallels with showroom sales of the new RZ34...

Personally speaking, most of what I need to know about a particular car will probably be contained in the combination of its chassis designation and prefix (full 'Katashiki would be nice), production date and its destination market. Anything over and above that comes from looking at the fabric of the car itself. 'Model Year' and 'Series X' are tits on a bull to me. We touched on this several pages back on this thread. 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by DC871F

[SpeedRoo]

On 9/14/2022 at 12:59 AM, HS30-H said:

And that's the problem...

Really...this has become laughable! Calling a car by the badge on the outside is a problem, the woke police taking over yet again. It says Datsun 240Z on the outside so that's what I have.

[Zed Head]

6 minutes ago, SpeedRoo said:

Really...this has become laughable! Calling a car by the badge on the outside is a problem, the woke police taking over yet again. It says Datsun 240Z on the outside so that's what I have.

You're saying that a 1973 240Z has the same value as 1970 240Z?  That if you had a 73 you'd trade it straight across for a 70?  Because they both say 240Z on the outside.

Trying to use those played out memes will drag you in to absurdity.  Be careful.

[Zed Head]

The 70/71 is up today.  Let's see what the collectors think, if any are interested.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-datsun-240z-82/

[HS30-H]

3 minutes ago, SpeedRoo said:

Really...this has become laughable! Calling a car by the badge on the outside is a problem, the woke police taking over yet again. It says Datsun 240Z on the outside so that's what I have.

"Woke police". LOL. This from the guy who claims to have never heard of one of America's greatest automotive authors.

I'm talking about situations where the whole is being talked about, but the specific is being used.

For example, a book published regarding the 'Maru Z', '270 Kaihatsu Kigou' project; The genesis, planning, design, engineering and putting-into-production of the whole S30-series range as seen at launch (S30, S30-S, PS30, PS30-SB, HLS30U, HLS30, HS30U etc etc) being titled 'Datsun 240Z Engineering Development'.

See? Probably not...

Happens all the time. Probably whizzes way over your head.

[Zed Head]

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

The 70/71 is up today.  Let's see what the collectors think, if any are interested.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-datsun-240z-82/

$12,300, RNM.  Presentation is key on BAT.  The seller did a not-so-good job.  

[Zed Head]

This modified 71 is probably going to outdo the "early 71 Series I" 240Z.  It has fender flares!  Eeeewww....

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-datsun-240z-231/