Z's on BAT and other places collection

[Zed Head]

Making a high bid early shouldn't discourage anyone who "knows" the market.  Anyone who can bid 1/4 million dollars can surely pay to ship the car to Japan.  The premium market.  I could see bumping it up in 10's to show your determination.  But 120 is not rational, unless the purpose is to be able to say that you own a $250,000 car.  Or a guy who just didn't know what he was doing.

There's no way to explain away the oddness.  The other guy I mentioned actually responded on the BaT page and said that he bid way over the last bid because he thought that was the car's value and he wanted to pay it.  But one-person value is not market value.  In terms relative to the whole market it's just one guy who "over-paid".

It will be interesting to see if it pops up somewhere.  The guy owns an old Packard also.  His bidding made more sense on that car.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1934-packard-twelve-1107-club-sedan/

[Patcon]

There are plenty of people out there where $100k is a nice night on the town.

At some level of wealth, time is more valuable than money. Maybe he didn't want to look for another car or it ticked all the right boxes? We'll probably never know unless Alan's suspicions supply feedback at some point.

[zspert]

Personal experience comment on ZAPS. In 1977 I was working as a mechanic at the DC Datsun franchise. Originally a Ford dealership built in the 50s or so. The east side of the shop had an almost wall of windows with tons of natural light. The west side was built into a hill so in the summer there was a modest amount of natural cooling. We were always busy.

We got 1 ZAPS car which just sat on the showroom floor. Finally the GM got the bright idea to give it to the service manager to use as his demo which allowed it to be seen around town. Finally after about 4 weeks it sold. 

When we later got our single Black Pearl car it was on the showroom floor for no more than 2 weeks before it was snatched up. 

 

My new Service Manager

[HS30-H]

10 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

Making a high bid early shouldn't discourage anyone who "knows" the market.  Anyone who can bid 1/4 million dollars can surely pay to ship the car to Japan.  The premium market.  I could see bumping it up in 10's to show your determination.  But 120 is not rational, unless the purpose is to be able to say that you own a $250,000 car.  Or a guy who just didn't know what he was doing.

Shipping the car to Japan would cost money. Import taxes and duties would be payable and getting the car inspected and road-registered would also cost money. No guarantee that the selling owner had any current connections in Japan to handle that for him (especially since he was using a dealer to sell the car on BaT on his behalf) and anybody doing anything for him on the Japan side would likely be charging him for it. That's why I said the car - being in the USA - is 'out of context'. People - including yourself - seem to be amazed that the car has been bid to 250k USD, but similar cars are changing hands for more in Japan.     

18 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

In terms relative to the whole market it's just one guy who "over-paid".

See above. I just don't think you are familiar with PS30 values.

Over the last few weeks I was contacted by a dealer in the Far East (not Japan) who had been tasked with sourcing a PS30 for a collector client. He asked me my opinion on several PS30s that are currently on the market in Japan. He wanted an "investment grade" car. ALL of them were priced at equivalent to more than 250k USD at today's exchange rates. A couple of them nearer 400k.    

[HS30-H]

8 minutes ago, zspert said:

My new Service Manager

Judging by what's on the table, prepare for trouble. That cat has plans.

[Zed Head]

9 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

People - including yourself - seem to be amazed

You're doing it again.  I did not express amazement.  I expressed bemusement at the guy's bidding.  Read>comprehend>respond, if necessary..

I see several BaT's comments saying that because the guy paid it, it must be the correct market value.  That's nonsense.

[Gav240z]

4 hours ago, siteunseen said:

I've never liked the way bat adds another minute when someone outbids the last guy. That's not the way auctions work in my opinion. So weird stuff I agree.

Good on the winner, he let everyone know he wanted this car. No last minute games to play around with. 

Yahoo! Auctions does the same, just means no last minute sniper bids. Kind of a good thing.

[Gav240z]

The person bidding paid $250k USD for a car which has a market value around that amount. Maybe there wasn't another buyer willing to pay that? But it only takes 1 buyer in any market to sell something. You'll never know if you could have paid less, but it may just have passed in and gone to post auction negotiations, end of the day the car only sells if the seller is willing to let it go at that price. Do we know what the reserve was? Probably not. So it sold because it was at market value for that car. Enough said.

Some people don't enjoy the foreplay of bidding back and forth (I don't particularly like it myself). Clearly this bidder bid what it took to secure the car. Well done to them I say.

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

You're doing it again.  I did not express amazement.  I expressed bemusement at the guy's bidding.  Read>comprehend>respond, if necessary..

So why are you suggesting that he overpaid? People who know what they are talking about reckon the car sold for around the car's market value in USD for a car located in the USA. I'm one of them. In fact, knowing the specific car as I do, I think it was a good buy.

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

I see several BaT's comments saying that because the guy paid it, it must be the correct market value.  That's nonsense.

Again I'll say that I agree with you that his bidding tactics were odd, but you can't base your idea of true value on the underbid (what was it, 130k?). By whacking in a 250k bid so early he may well have trounced any number of people who were willing to go higher than 130k but not necessarily as much as 250k. 

So, let me ask you, what do you think the "correct market value" of that car is?

[Zed Head]

The competitive aspect of the auction is designed to determine "market" value.  There was no competition here.  If the guy put it back on the market would he get $130,000 or 250,000?  That's a pretty big spread.  

If you guys want to show a sampling of Z432 prices over the years that would be more substantive than a Hagerty appraisal.  Estimates from afficianados don't really have much weight behind them.  It's like bench-racing. 

But the price paid is not my point anyway.  The method of getting there is.  Could be the guy read a Hagerty article and accepted their estimate and assumed that there would be competition.  Who knows.  It's interesting.

 

[HS30-H]

17 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

Estimates from afficianados don't really have much weight behind them. 

LOL. OK.

[xs10shl]

5 hours ago, Zed Head said:

The competitive aspect of the auction is designed to determine "market" value.  

 IMHO, the business objective of an auction house is to get the highest price achievable for an artifact, not necessarily a "market" price. Certain marques and models sold at auction fare worse than private market pricing, others do much better.  Everything about an auction is skewed in the seller's favor, not to mention the house itself.

In this case, the only thing we know is that the car met reserve, so two people agreed that the car would change hands at a price.  That said, we can all agree that the seller would have preferred a third interested party at the 250k+ level to help drive the price higher, but that bidder did not surface this week.