Z's on BAT and other places collection

[HS30-H]

4 hours ago, Carl Beck said:

Faded carpet in the rear deck

Deal breaker. That'll eliminate the 'Serious Collectors' (TM).

🙃

 

 

[texasz]

2 hours ago, Namerow said:

I thought that Series 2 didn't start until VIN 046000.

That said, this one seems to be a mix of S1 and  S2...  

Series 1 equipment includes:  Type A transmission, with matching console; brake m/cylinder has large reservoir at the front.

Series 2 equipment includes:  Storage bins built into rear floor; no air extractor vents in hatch panel; horizontal defroster grid in rear glass.

I believe that the change over date has to do with the body and modifications to it.  As mentioned, the tool storage change for example.  Also, the rear vents moved from the hatch to the pillar.  These are all things that required manufacturing tooling changes and would indicate the change from what we commonly refer to as series 1 vs series 2.  The other parts mentioned such as transmission, hatch glass (defroster changes), steering wheel, etc. are all "bolt on" parts that they continued using until the supply was depleted on the manufacturing line as I understand it from everything I've read over the years.  We really cannot use those "bolt on" items as a clear indicator of when the change occurred.

[zspert]

Here we go again, "series 1 series 2" . What is the production date? I promise this will be my last comment on this subject.

[Zed Head]

Shouldn't the word "OIL" be oriented longitudinally?  Not good!

Just kidding.  Doesn't look like the 2nd owner did any work on it, by the original BAT listing in 2022.  Just tried to resell it about five years after buying it and $98,000 wasn't enough.

2022 listing - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-datsun-240z-205/

Looks like the reserve is at least $75,000 this time around - https://www.classic.com/a/mecum-indy-2024-N4Vvky4/lots/1971-datsun-240z-coupe-W9Qm6jW

[HS30-H]

3 hours ago, zspert said:

Here we go again, "series 1 series 2" . What is the production date? I promise this will be my last comment on this subject.

Presumably it will be explained away with the usual goalpost moving and assigned some fraction between 1 and 2 ('Series 1.25'/'Series 1.5'/'Series 1.75'). Solito Negotium.

4 hours ago, texasz said:

The other parts mentioned such as transmission, hatch glass (defroster changes), steering wheel, etc. are all "bolt on" parts that they continued using until the supply was depleted on the manufacturing line as I understand it from everything I've read over the years.  We really cannot use those "bolt on" items as a clear indicator of when the change occurred.

I'm sorry but all this 'using up of stock parts until depleted' narrative is a combination of supposition, underestimation of Nissan as a company and lack of knowledge about what was actually going on. It implies that Nissan's component manufacturing - both in-house and with sub-contractors - was somehow disconnected with the sections of the company engaged in planning model updates and supersessions of said components. The idea that Nissan would find themselves with crates full of suddenly obsolescent parts which somehow needed to be "used up" before the introduction of their successors is for the birds. This is Cargo Cult-level nonsense. Jungle tribes trying to make sense of refrigerators dropping out of the sky. Much like the retrospectively-applied vernacular 'Series' appellations, indeed. Pundits need to do better.

 

Have to laugh at the list of de-merits for this car cited as reasons why it won't be bid as high as last time. Those 'faults' (hey, it's had a life, who knew?) were on the car last time it was bid sky high too.

The car hasn't changed, the zeitgeist has.  

[Gav240z]

22 hours ago, Namerow said:

I thought that Series 2 didn't start until VIN 046000.

That said, this one seems to be a mix of S1 and  S2...  

Hahaha... Oh dear. I'm sure Carl can explain series 1 and 2. 

[Patcon]

I don't find the Series 1 / 2 terminology offensive. I look at it as a general description that gives some idea of the traits the car could have. It's not normally used as a hard and fast rule or an absolute. I find the terminology very helpful and always have. If I want exactness I use production dates but it's very rare I care that much.

[Gav240z]

50 minutes ago, Patcon said:

It's not normally used as a hard and fast rule or an absolute.

To flog the dead horse, the problem is it's often used as an absolute.

Then all sorts of contortions are required to make it fit when an example car pops up.

That's why I laughed..

[HS30-H]

3 hours ago, Patcon said:

I don't find the Series 1 / 2 terminology offensive. I look at it as a general description that gives some idea of the traits the car could have. It's not normally used as a hard and fast rule or an absolute. I find the terminology very helpful and always have. If I want exactness I use production dates but it's very rare I care that much.

I think some of us find it strained rather than offensive. It attempts to put somewhat square pegs in neat, round holes. Yes, I can see how it came about and yes, I can see that some kind of lines in the sand would be useful (I tend to think along the lines of 'solid pillar/vented pillar' and then 'A-trans/B-trans' and so on) but trying to define spec/content - and that's exactly when it gets used - by citing a fairly arbitrary idea of 'Series' is soon going to get tripped up.

And yes, it does get used as though it is a hard and fast rule/absolute (see post #2637 of this thread...!) and reinforced by people who are often cited as authorities on the cars. Self-certification.

[DC871F]

34 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

I think some of us find it strained rather than offensive. It attempts to put somewhat square pegs in neat, round holes. Yes, I can see how it came about and yes, I can see that some kind of lines in the sand would be useful (I tend to think along the lines of 'solid pillar/vented pillar' and then 'A-trans/B-trans' and so on) but trying to define spec/content - and that's exactly when it gets used - by citing a fairly arbitrary idea of 'Series' is soon going to get tripped up.

And yes, it does get used as though it is a hard and fast rule/absolute (see post #2637 of this thread...!) and reinforced by people who are often cited as authorities on the cars. Self-certification.

I own a 1/71 car "Series 1", and I had someone approach the car and start pointing at all the incorrect things on my car. The fun part is , my car is all original and unrestored.

 

I just said thank you.

[Patcon]

There are many things in life that are not used in the way they were intended or good ways. That doesn't make the thing the problem but instead the application.

Like many of these things, we here or most people anywhere can't stop the misuse of these things. The best we can do is use these things including the Series 1/2 designation in a responsible way and move forward.

[Richie G]

My two cents as a relative newbie to all this.  i have a 6/71 build HLS3036219 and am not the original owner so i don't know what was original or not.  By date and VIN it should be a pure series 2.  the PO did a terrible job of restoring and took so many shortcuts its shameful.  trying my best to correct all that I can.  As i'm doing this I realize that the most important thing is to make your car what you want with it.  I had to address seat mechanism issues and took the ebay route.  Well what I did was get a 72 pair of seats which isn't correct for the car but its correct for me since I like the idea of the better reclining function.  I also had to replace the fan, the original metal one was a mess well I decided to get the 72 plastic one to save wear and tear on the water pump, and the list could go on.

So enjoy your cars, build and tinker to suit your needs.  We wont be here forever so enjoy it.