Z's on BAT and other places collection

[texasz]

23 hours ago, HS30-H said:

I'm sorry but all this 'using up of stock parts until depleted' narrative is a combination of supposition, underestimation of Nissan as a company and lack of knowledge about what was actually going on. It implies that Nissan's component manufacturing - both in-house and with sub-contractors - was somehow disconnected with the sections of the company engaged in planning model updates and supersessions of said components. The idea that Nissan would find themselves with crates full of suddenly obsolescent parts which somehow needed to be "used up" before the introduction of their successors is for the birds. This is Cargo Cult-level nonsense. Jungle tribes trying to make sense of refrigerators dropping out of the sky. Much like the retrospectively-applied vernacular 'Series' appellations, indeed. Pundits need to do better.

I truly do respect your knowledge on these and have found you be to a wealth of information over the past MANY years.  Could you please share your thoughts on why several of the cars built after the body changes such as the pillar vents and tool storage would have still had some of the early componentry such as steering wheel, ashtray/center console, valve cover, and other items commonly associated with the earlier production cars?  I genuinely would like to learn the reason if not what I described above (which I have picked up over the years from many sources, and seems to make sense); I was not there so I only know what I have learned on these forums and other internet sites over the years.

3 hours ago, HS30-H said:

... (I tend to think along the lines of 'solid pillar/vented pillar' and then 'A-trans/B-trans' and so on)...

This is the approach I was taking above, specifically with the pillar vents and the tool storage.  These are things that clearly signify a change.

[DatsunZGuy]

Good bellwether of a softening market.  75K was the highest bid it got at a Mecum auction last month as well.

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, texasz said:

Could you please share your thoughts on why several of the cars built after the body changes such as the pillar vents and tool storage would have still had some of the early componentry such as steering wheel, ashtray/center console, valve cover, and other items commonly associated with the earlier production cars?  I genuinely would like to learn the reason if not what I described above (which I have picked up over the years from many sources, and seems to make sense); I was not there so I only know what I have learned on these forums and other internet sites over the years.

With all due respect to you, I think the main question here starts from a mistaken premise. The whole 'Series One', 'Series Two' ('Series 1.5' LOL) thing implies hard change points onto which have been hung big assumptions. People have tended to believe that the big production change points (EG vented tailgate to vented quarter) also included a raft of other content/spec changes.

But if you look at the wider story of the whole S30-series Z family, you can observe changes being made all the way through production. The Japanese market variants in particular were going through a constant process of evolution in specs and componentry. So much so that it is hard to track them all. Yes, some of the major changes coincided and were obviously planned to happen at points when updates to new regulations were being complied with, but evolution was going on all the way through production and for many different reasons.

As an example, here in the UK I have often heard people talking and writing about early production UK market RS30 '260Z' models as being made with many "left over" HS30 '240Z' parts. It's as though they imagined Nissan having warehouses full of '240Z' parts which somehow needed to be "used up" before the switch over to 'real 260Z' parts. This is - of course - a simple and innocent misapprehension. In trying to make sense of what they observed on the cars as-delivered they came up with an imaginary scenario which did not reflect the wider reality. All they were observing was ongoing evolution in componentry either side of a major update (the switch from HS30 '240Z' to RS30 '260Z'). The expectation was that the 'new model' switch should indicate all new content. Some of it was, but a lot of it wasn't. So, for example, we hear about early 260Zs with '240Z' doors and '240Z' struts etc as though old parts are being used up before the switchover to newer specs. You'd kind of hope that Nissan had a better grip on their parts production than that, no? 

I'd be surprised if a lot of this doesn't come from expectations based on the activities of the major American manufacturers, and that being applied - mistakenly - to a Japanese manufacturer. Perhaps American and Canadian car buyers had got so used to the 'Model Year' updates of their domestic manufacturers that they expected Nissan to behave in the same way? The fact is that in some ways they did, but in others they did not. Hence the confusion?   

 

       

 

[texasz]

4 hours ago, HS30-H said:

With all due respect to you, I think the main question here starts from a mistaken premise. The whole 'Series One', 'Series Two' ('Series 1.5' LOL) thing implies hard change points onto which have been hung big assumptions. People have tended to believe that the big production change points (EG vented tailgate to vented quarter) also included a raft of other content/spec changes.

But if you look at the wider story of the whole S30-series Z family, you can observe changes being made all the way through production. The Japanese market variants in particular were going through a constant process of evolution in specs and componentry. So much so that it is hard to track them all. Yes, some of the major changes coincided and were obviously planned to happen at points when updates to new regulations were being complied with, but evolution was going on all the way through production and for many different reasons.

As an example, here in the UK I have often heard people talking and writing about early production UK market RS30 '260Z' models as being made with many "left over" HS30 '240Z' parts. It's as though they imagined Nissan having warehouses full of '240Z' parts which somehow needed to be "used up" before the switch over to 'real 260Z' parts. This is - of course - a simple and innocent misapprehension. In trying to make sense of what they observed on the cars as-delivered they came up with an imaginary scenario which did not reflect the wider reality. All they were observing was ongoing evolution in componentry either side of a major update (the switch from HS30 '240Z' to RS30 '260Z'). The expectation was that the 'new model' switch should indicate all new content. Some of it was, but a lot of it wasn't. So, for example, we hear about early 260Zs with '240Z' doors and '240Z' struts etc as though old parts are being used up before the switchover to newer specs. You'd kind of hope that Nissan had a better grip on their parts production than that, no? 

I'd be surprised if a lot of this doesn't come from expectations based on the activities of the major American manufacturers, and that being applied - mistakenly - to a Japanese manufacturer. Perhaps American and Canadian car buyers had got so used to the 'Model Year' updates of their domestic manufacturers that they expected Nissan to behave in the same way? The fact is that in some ways they did, but in others they did not. Hence the confusion?        

 

I see what you are saying.  One thing about the 'use up the old parts on the manufacturing line' explanation that I wondered about was why not inventory those in the parts department for consumers/body shops/etc. to buy.  Having not been there I just have to rely on those who either were there or simply know more about it that me.  Thank you for your reply.

[bartsscooterservice]

no such things as a series lol. mine should then have series 1 parts but a 2 body lol,

but whatever makes people feel good, i really don't mind, for god sake you call it series 0.5 lol

[dutchzcarguy]

Bart, you got like mine a early '71 ..  i would call it a series 1,5 hahaha.. vertical heating on rear glass and vented quarter instead of vented tailgate.. I'm very happy to have the vented quarter. much less problems with maintenance and good ventilation without the back incoming exhaustgasses.

My car is a feb. 1971 240z original it was grey/silver with black interior. it's now red for over 30 years..

To make the mix even worse haha i put in a 5 speed gearbox with 3,9 diff. (From my orig.dutch imported car) It drives very good, Bart can confirm, only at 210km/h it gets a bit shaky!!  🙂  Last month i bought myself a diff arrestor as my car HAS NONE!!  (i think it went out the door when some "mechanics" installed a 2mm thick floor in my car.. Later on i got rid of that 25kg (55 pounds!) floor! and installed a better 1mm floor and some damping material)

Now i need to install the diffarrestor...

[bartsscooterservice]

2 hours ago, dutchzcarguy said:

Bart, you got like mine a early '71 ..  i would call it a series 1,5 hahaha.. vertical heating on rear glass and vented quarter instead of vented tailgate.. I'm very happy to have the vented quarter. much less problems with maintenance and good ventilation without the back incoming exhaustgasses.

My car is a feb. 1971 240z original it was grey/silver with black interior. it's now red for over 30 years..

To make the mix even worse haha i put in a 5 speed gearbox with 3,9 diff. (From my orig.dutch imported car) It drives very good, Bart can confirm, only at 210km/h it gets a bit shaky!!  🙂  Last month i bought myself a diff arrestor as my car HAS NONE!!  (i think it went out the door when some "mechanics" installed a 2mm thick floor in my car.. Later on i got rid of that 25kg (55 pounds!) floor! and installed a better 1mm floor and some damping material)

Now i need to install the diffarrestor...

" I'm very happy to have the vented quarter. much less problems with maintenance and good ventilation without the back incoming exhaustgasses "

 

Same... I also think that is the reason the factory changed the design 😉

[bartsscooterservice]

Yes time to install the diff arrestor belt mart ! Saves wear on the mount, i'm suprised your mount didn't tear off allready....

I changed my rubber bushing with a poly kit, maybe if you do that it will be less " shaky " at higher speeds lol

 

 

[HS30-H]

3 hours ago, bartsscooterservice said:

" I'm very happy to have the vented quarter. much less problems with maintenance and good ventilation without the back incoming exhaustgasses "

 

Same... I also think that is the reason the factory changed the design 😉

Hitoshi Uemura told me that the vented quarter panel design update saved both manufacturing time and parts costs, deleting the complex vents & drains in the tailgate which were made up of many individual components and which took time to assemble.

The vented quarters function was pretty much achieved at the metal stamping and spotwelding stage, with just a push-on vent/emblem on the outside (popped on after paint) and simple holes in the hard plastic interior trim. A neat solution.

[zspert]

Interesting to note - The deck lid vent system used in the early Zs is the same system used in the 510 wagon, a rather complex, multi part, system.

[Zed Head]

Here's a new offering that might be a fun resto-driver money pit garage project.  Probably needs a little bit of work on everything.  Has an odd rust pattern.  No reserve.  California.  Gas tank cleaned but says it's not been run since 1991.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-datsun-240z-297/

 

[grannyknot]

Looks like a fantastic money pit, would love to get my hand on it.