Future of driving a "classic" car

[DC871F]

So with Biden now president elect "for now", and with my extensive travels for work in Europe, it makes me cringe just a little that the main agenda (other than combat racism} is to tackle climate change.

Ten years ago in Belgium, I was talking with a man at a gas station driving his beautiful MGB GT, and I'll get right to the point. He was only able to drive it within a certain geographic area due to insurance reasons, which I know is not that far fetched, but I just got done reading articles about Paris not allowing "older" vehicles allowed in the city, etc, among other articles all across Europe about the same thing.

With the war on climate change from the far left Progressives, are we going to be seeing restrictions in the US that are very European here in the good ole USA, the land of the Muscle Car, Route 66, and the freest form of being an American, "Hitting the open road" the way we want?

So after I spend countless hours and dollars on my 240z restoration and the other 2 classic cars I have, am I going to have a very expensive grocery getter. and not my daily driver and road trip car to various States shows crossing various State lines, etc?

I have spent years in Asia, Middle East, Europe, and to me being an American to the truest form is, Economic Freedom, Freedom of a government telling me how to live my DAILY life, and not being taxed into submission.

I only know what I have experienced in my travels for work, and from the locals. I do not claim to be an expert.

Nation	City	Price in USD Regular/Gallon
Germany	Frankfurt	$5.57
France	Paris	$5.54
Portugal	Lisbon	$5.35
Hungary	Budapest	$4.94

 

[JSM]

Maybe DEF for gasoline engines!  I know that is catalytic converter! I’m shocked every state doesn’t have mandated inspections. I recall in the 80’s going with my dad for the inspection here in FL and then it just disappeared. 

[Zed Head]

"Will I be able to drive my car" seems kind of like a small concern, considering all.  

Read around the internet about tetraethyl lead.  There are still people out there that think that lead poisoning is not a big deal and "big government " is ruining the joy of 12:1 compression and big cams.  

https://www.aoghs.org/products/tetraethyl-lead-gasoline/

[DC871F]

6 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

"Will I be able to drive my car" seems kind of like a small concern, considering all.  

Read around the internet about tetraethyl lead.  There are still people out there that think that lead poisoning is not a big deal and "big government " is ruining the joy of 12:1 compression and big cams.  

https://www.aoghs.org/products/tetraethyl-lead-gasoline/

Small, I agree, but Europeanizing America is a grave concern. My example is just a drop in the bucket.

[siteunseen]

I think of it like cholesterol. My grandparents died in their 60s. My parents, their 80s with monitoring and medication for high level LDLs. 

Change with intelligence. 

[DC871F]

5 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

I think of it like cholesterol. My grandparents died in their 60s. My parents, their 80s with monitoring and medication for high level LDLs. 

Change with intelligence. 

I love it.

It sounds like you will be good until 102. 

[240dkw]

Gas is cheap right now and I pay 4.88 per US gal. It has been over 5.00 most of the past year. And I drive as much as I want, it is like the cost of a cup of coffee, you just shrug and move on with life,

[AK260]

The planet is burning, respiratory diseases such as asthma have been rising over the decades and known to be linked to city / car pollution and yet, THIS is our concern!?

 

https://www.aaaai.org/conditions-and-treatments/library/asthma-library/air-pollution-asthma

 

There is nothing European about it, frankly it’s a world concern that simply some nations have been quicker at responding to. If lockdown showed us anything, it was just how polluted our air has been that we’ve gradually gotten accustomed to living with. Much like the leaded fuel case mentioned above.

 

I heard these sorts of arguments from smokers in the 90’s when the ban came in on smoking in enclosed spaces such as restaurants etc. “How dare the government tell me what to do and take away my freedom to pollute the air around me? It’s my democratic right to damage my own health and those of others nearby”.

 

While I’m a total piston head and bemoan losing the joy of a growling ICE, I think in 20-30 years we will look back on this era of our existence and laugh at how dumb we were to drive highly polluting cars near our schools, leisure areas and in cities; walking about next to them breathing all those dangerous gasses as if it were perfectly OK.

 

Not that electric cars are any greener from cradle to grave of course. But for inner cities and areas with dense populations / poor air quality, they are a step in the right direction. So now we have to change the song to:

 

Get your motor hummin’,

Sneak out on the highway!

 

Looking for a charge point,

And supercharge on our way.

 

Just after WW II, the world population was a mere 2bn. We are currently over 7 and rising. The trouble with existing on such a scale is that whatever we do will have an impact on our surroundings and society at large. So we have to move forward intelligently.

 

 

I don’t like being forced to go electric soon, but in some ways the electric car will save the ICE car / classic cars - much like horses and steam engined vehicles were saved by the car and are now a thing of leisure and nostalgia. Simply put, we have to adapt.

 

Oh and to make you laugh: my Q5 2.0TDi and A4 3.2 v6 petrol are way way cleaner and more fuel efficient than my Z - but the Z being a “Historic class vehicle” is low emissions zone exempt in the UK! Go figure ;) I guess we still like classic cars here.

 

[DC871F]

8 hours ago, AK260 said:

The planet is burning, respiratory diseases such as asthma have been rising over the decades and known to be linked to city / car pollution and yet, THIS is our concern!?

 

https://www.aaaai.org/conditions-and-treatments/library/asthma-library/air-pollution-asthma

 

There is nothing European about it, frankly it’s a world concern that simply some nations have been quicker at responding to. If lockdown showed us anything, it was just how polluted our air has been that we’ve gradually gotten accustomed to living with. Much like the leaded fuel case mentioned above.

 

I heard these sorts of arguments from smokers in the 90’s when the ban came in on smoking in enclosed spaces such as restaurants etc. “How dare the government tell me what to do and take away my freedom to pollute the air around me? It’s my democratic right to damage my own health and those of others nearby”.

 

While I’m a total piston head and bemoan losing the joy of a growling ICE, I think in 20-30 years we will look back on this era of our existence and laugh at how dumb we were to drive highly polluting cars near our schools, leisure areas and in cities; walking about next to them breathing all those dangerous gasses as if it were perfectly OK.

 

Not that electric cars are any greener from cradle to grave of course. But for inner cities and areas with dense populations / poor air quality, they are a step in the right direction. So now we have to change the song to:

 

Get your motor hummin’,

Sneak out on the highway!

 

Looking for a charge point,

And supercharge on our way.

 

Just after WW II, the world population was a mere 2bn. We are currently over 7 and rising. The trouble with existing on such a scale is that whatever we do will have an impact on our surroundings and society at large. So we have to move forward intelligently.

 

 

I don’t like being forced to go electric soon, but in some ways the electric car will save the ICE car / classic cars - much like horses and steam engined vehicles were saved by the car and are now a thing of leisure and nostalgia. Simply put, we have to adapt.

 

Oh and to make you laugh: my Q5 2.0TDi and A4 3.2 v6 petrol are way way cleaner and more fuel efficient than my Z - but the Z being a “Historic class vehicle” is low emissions zone exempt in the UK! Go figure 😉 I guess we still like classic cars here.

 

Asia, South Asia, Africa, Norther Russia are ecological disasters, and have been for decades.

US, Europe are the cleanest on the planet, and have improved drastically, case in point, LA Basin. Climate change has now become a religious crusade, and some parts of the US Government have taken on the same mantra.

The tax burden proposed on the US taxpayer has reached in some estimates 100 trillion. India alone is a lost cause when it comes to changing anything pertaining to pollution, green house gases, etc. 

My argument, how does one nation change everything we know about carbon emission change the abhorrent behavior of places like China, India, Africa, when the US is already the cleanest its ever been?

You can drive your electric car mandated by the government and never burn another gallon of gas, but that does nothing globally. You will get your clean air at the school yard, but that about it.  Places like Delhi are the rotten apple in the bunch, theres no fix over there. Cities in the middle of China with the giant manufacturing plants, theres no fix there either. The governments, Eco-social conditions wont (cant) allow the massive change mandated by the initiative.

I believe just like the war on drugs, where billions and billions are spent to wage that war, will mirror the war on climate. Normal daily life hangs in the balance.

[Zed Head]

2 hours ago, DC871F said:

I believe just like the war on drugs, where billions and billions are spent to wage that war, will mirror the war on climate. Normal daily life hangs in the balance.

This last post sounds like the "far left Progressive" view that you were deriding in your first post.  But that's okay, that's what discussions are for.  This year's election isn't even really about left or right.  It's about fatalism versus hope.

Climate can be controlled.  If you ever spent time in the LA basin in the 80's you know what happens if you just let people run riot.  Tried to find a picture and instead I found that it's been a problem for far longer and they've been working on it for way before my time on the planet started.

California is a good model for what could be.  But it's full of those "far left Progressives".

https://www.aqmd.gov/home/research/publications/50-years-of-progress

https://www.insider.com/vintage-photos-los-angeles-smog-pollution-epa-2020-1

 

[AK260]

So DC871F (actually, having just been watching the Rise of Skywalker, your handle sounds very Storm Trooper!) - apologies for my insomnia rant. I figure I’ve taken you off topic a little as your post is really about driving classic cars not all cars.

 

When I was working in India back in 2008/9, I could see all that you are saying first hand. So could they, as you couldn’t even take a good enough photo of the Taj Mahal in the summer given the haze of pollution. At the time, they started making some efforts by forcing the most common and polluting city vehicles (the three wheeled tuck tucks) onto liquid natural gas. In 2019 they launched their National Clean Air Programme - but as you point out, they have quite a hill to climb.

 

China has “recently” realised that the cost of pollution is too high and unsustainable, so it too has made strides - without spelling it out, here’s a good read ...

 

https://earth.org/how-china-is-winning-its-battle-against-air-pollution/

 

Their problem of course (much like the rest of the manufacturing world) is the heavy industries like steel are difficult to curtail as they bring jobs and prosperity.

 

Obviously time will tell how truthfully all these initiatives have been implemented.

 

I feel that given the stature of countries like the US and the likes of the European Union on the world stage they really need to be the leading lights on this issue and lead by example. One of many reasons why the Biden approach compared with his predecessor is very welcomed by those who are concerned for the future of the environment.

 

As for classic cars, in countries that care about air quality, it is inevitable that our cars will become curtailed in the areas they can be used. But that’s just the way of the future for all ICE cars.

[w3wilkes]

The new person in the White House may have a sympathetic ear to us collectors.