240z values - 4 speed vs 5 speed

[Diseazd]

Driveshaft lengths are the same for the Datsun (Nissan) 4 and 5 speed transmissions........at least for the common swaps through 280 ZX.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Diseazd

[UM240]

fs5c71a was  in euro  240z til the end off 1971,  so i own  an us 240z from  2/1971 i will swap to this gearbox. I already bought an fs5c71a with the spacial driveshaft because we like it in germany to drive on the   AUTOBAHN  😁, 

[inline6]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:54 PM, Diseazd said:

Driveshaft lengths are the same for the Datsun (Nissan) 4 and 5 speed transmissions........at least for the common swaps through 280 ZX.

My memory fails me I think.  I recall getting a custom driveshaft made for my 12/70 car to get the 83 280ZX box to work with the rear end after correcting for driveshaft angularity by moving the diff back more in the car.  Was a custom driveshaft not necessary?  Is it not necessary for the same transmission added to later 240z's?

I am also about to put a 240SX 5 speed in the car I am restoring.  I'm not sure if a custom driveshaft is necessary for that application, but will determine soon enough.  I realize that is a different 5 speed entirely and not part of the point I was attempting to make.  

Thanks for your comment.

[Zed Head]

After moving the diff back you're in the place that Diseazd described where the same propeller shaft will work all the way through 1978.  The dimensions stayed the same once they got the diff directly between the wheels.

But, the short propeller shaft that was used with the forward mounted diff is the one that people use with the 240SX (71C) transmission.  So, if you still have it, it's about a perfect fit.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Zed Head

[inline6]

16 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

After moving the diff back you're in the place that Diseazd described where the same propeller shaft will work all the way through 1978.  The dimensions stayed the same once they got the diff directly between the wheels.

But, the short propeller shaft that was used with the forward mounted diff is the one that people use with the 240SX (71C) transmission.  So, if you still have it, it's about a perfect fit.

I have the original driveshaft from my 6/1971 car.  A quick search seems to indicate that the diff didn't get moved back until the 1972 model year cars.  I'd have to look at my suspension pieces to confirm that the change wasn't made yet in the production.  

[dutchzcarguy]

On 3/11/2021 at 9:54 PM, UM240 said:

fs5c71a was  in euro  240z til the end off 1971

Hello UM240,  I (could be wrong but i) had a 240z 1972 in the early nineties (orig. dutch car) that was to far gone and till today i use it's Fs5C71a (EDIT: Fs5C71B !!)  Gearbox in my (also like you red US.) 240z!

At first i tested this with the original diff from the 4 speed but you can better install the original to the 5 speed gearbox differential.. otherwise your first gear gets a bit lòòòònngg..  and it's bad for your clutch..  (The end speed of first gear is to high)

About the driving on the "autobahn"  I drove the 240z with that gearbox with standard original engine, no restore or extra stuff at 210 km/hour.. a lot of shaking going on but it went that fast haha!   Faster was my 300zxtt it did 265 km/hour on the autobahn! Hihi The fastest was my fireblade at ~295km/hour.. (i could not exactly read the tacho as i was laying flat on it.)🤣

EDIT !  :  I made a mistake.. I use a Fs5C71B out of my 1972 euro 240z (Orig delivered in the Netherlands in 1972)  So not the Fs5C71a

Edited March 13, 2021 by dutchzcarguy

[xs10shl]

I'd venture to say that in a world market for mid-volume collectable cars such as an s30,  rare performance options typically bring a large price premium, perhaps up to 50% more.  This of course assumes that we are comparing 2 cars which are otherwise identical in condition.  The price data for Zs is skewed by the fact that the available sales results overwhelmingly contains US-based sales of US-specification cars.  If a #1-condition 5-speed Portuguese-delivery 240z came to market, I think that variant would command a price well north of a top-condition US-spec 240Z.  

[dutchzcarguy]

16 hours ago, xs10shl said:

rare performance options typically bring a large price premium, perhaps up to 50% more. 

Euro spec cars are ofcourse much less sold and much more rare.. They most of the time rusted away.. Most 240z you see in europe now are imports from California or another dry state. (directly identified by the (in my eyes "only making the car heavyer") bumperettes!)

I know that in the Netherlands around 240 cars  240z's were sold!  They costed around 20000 guilders, to compare you could drive almost 4! Ford taunus from that money!!!!!  (No not Taurus we had the TauNUS..  Made in Germany)

 

16 hours ago, xs10shl said:

If a #1-condition 5-speed Portuguese-delivery 240z came to market

The portugese version was like all euro versions i guess..  ?? One exception i know of.. I know that a France version at some time had no reverse (white) lights and therefore had only half red/half orange lights at the rear..  (Very special.. i know because quite coincidentally i have a set of those on shelf.)

[Diseazd]

On 3/11/2021 at 6:48 PM, inline6 said:

My memory fails me I think.  I recall getting a custom driveshaft made for my 12/70 car to get the 83 280ZX box to work with the rear end after correcting for driveshaft angularity by moving the diff back more in the car.  Was a custom driveshaft not necessary?  Is it not necessary for the same transmission added to later 240z's?

I am also about to put a 240SX 5 speed in the car I am restoring.  I'm not sure if a custom driveshaft is necessary for that application, but will determine soon enough.  I realize that is a different 5 speed entirely and not part of the point I was attempting to make.  

Thanks for your comment.

The early Z trannies and up to and including the 1983 ZX transmission are the same dimensions (length). Therefore, if you take out the original 4 speed (even in the early cars that the diff hasn’t been moved in), the 5 speed (up to 280 ZX) will work with the driveshaft that works with your current setup. 

[Captain Obvious]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2021 at 11:20 AM, inline6 said:

Why are 240z's with 4 speeds just as valuable as those that have been converted to 5 speeds?

I'm certainly no expert on the collector value thing, so keep that in mind, but here's my thought on the matter. Here's my quick list of what I would look for when buying any Z, including a 240Z:

1) Has it been molested into a rice rocket JC Whitney abomination with fender flares, lowered, RB motor, fender mirrors, roll cage, fuel cell, go-faster stickers all over it
2) Rust
3) Rust
4) Rust
5) Does it have a sunroof, or is it an automatic
6) Rust
7) Rust
8) Is it a half finished torn apart molested project mishmash of different cars and years
9) Rust
10) Does it run and drive. At all
11) Rust
12) Does it have an interior. At all
.
.
.
374) Does it have a 4-speed or a 5-speed.

Like I said, I'm no expert, but that's my list.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Captain Obvious
Moved rice rocket abomination to the top of the list

[inline6]

Too funny - hahahaha!  I just don't want to rebuild my 4 speed transmission.  Seems like a waste of time and money to me.  I have decided to put a 240sx 5 speed transmission and 4.11 Quaife lsd diff in the car for now.  I will keep the original 4 speed and differential stored out of the way on a shelf in the garage.  🙂

[dutchzcarguy]

On my first place.... can i jack it up on all 4 corners with the original scissorjack (on the RIGHT) spot!) without distroying the chassis?  

4 speed or 5 speed.. or automatic... i would throw in a 5 speed anyway!  a Fs5c71a or b  Or a Fs5w71b from the zx..  Don't forget the diff..