240z values - 4 speed vs 5 speed

[Captain Obvious]

So I changed up my order just a little bit. I moved the chopped-up rice rocket to the top of the list. Why? Because at that point, it doesn't matter to me if it's clean or rusty, I'm not interested. If it's been chopped, tubbed, flared, whatever, beyond being able to be put back stock-ish, then I don't care how clean it is. I just can't.

Oh, and I put in a line for sunroof and auto trans.

Four-speed vs. five-speed is still #374

[inline6]

On 3/13/2021 at 9:43 PM, Captain Obvious said:

Oh, and I put in a line for sunroof and auto trans.

Four-speed vs. five-speed is still #374

Dude...  Have you ever done a roof replacement on a car fitted with a sunroof?  That is a lot of time and effort.  Four speed vs. 5 speed does pale in comparison to that, for sure.  Regarding rust... I am so glad to be restoring an original AZ car that then sat in a Colorado garage for 28 years as my starting point.  I couldn't agree more regarding 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, and 11.

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by inline6

[Captain Obvious]

No, thankfully I have never done a roof replacement to get rid of a sunroof. I've seen a couple people here on the forum get involved in that, and their (unpleasant) experience is what has driven me to put that so high up on my list. I'm with you... I'd much rather do a trans swap than deal with that!!

Hmmm... Maybe I should move sunroof up even higher.       

[xs10shl]

5 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Hmmm... Maybe I should move sunroof up even higher.       

You've given a nice Buyer's Checklist with your thoughts on how to evaluate a 240Z to purchase. I would certainly agree that shell condition ranks near the top of any buyers checklist.

Hypothetically, I'd be curious to know how you'd personally value a 240Z you were selling, which either has a period correct 5-speed swap, or a potentially even a factoy-equipped 5-speed? These two examples would of course mean different things to different buyers, so I could see wanting to mention that a "period 5-speed swap" car needs to be disclosed as "non-original".  I also gather that you'd not mention a "factory-equipped 5-speed" in your listing in a car so configured, seeing that it is so far down on your own list? 😃

Edited March 14, 2021 by xs10shl

[UM240]

On 3/12/2021 at 12:58 PM, dutchzcarguy said:

Hello UM240,  I (could be wrong but i) had a 240z 1972 in the early nineties (orig. dutch car) that was to far gone and till today i use it's Fs5C71a (EDIT: Fs5C71B !!)  Gearbox in my (also like you red US.) 240z!

At first i tested this with the original diff from the 4 speed but you can better install the original to the 5 speed gearbox differential.. otherwise your first gear gets a bit lòòòònngg..  and it's bad for your clutch..  (The end speed of first gear is to high)

About the driving on the "autobahn"  I drove the 240z with that gearbox with standard original engine, no restore or extra stuff at 210 km/hour.. a lot of shaking going on but it went that fast haha!   Faster was my 300zxtt it did 265 km/hour on the autobahn! Hihi The fastest was my fireblade at ~295km/hour.. (i could not exactly read the tacho as i as laying flat on it.)🤣

EDIT !  :  I made a mistake.. I use a Fs5C71B out of my 1972 euro 240z (Orig delivered in the Netherlands in 1972)  So not the Fs5C71a

Hallo from Luebeck,  that is an very interesting information for me,  .... the first gear gets a bit looooong ... i am thinking  about this since two years,  the FS5C71A has first gear 2,957 the FS5C71B has 2.906 just a little bit longer, so with your information i will  surre  use the diff from an automatik  car with 3.545 insted of 3.364. 

Thank you 

[dutchzcarguy]

13 hours ago, UM240 said:

so with your information i will  surre  use the diff from an automatik  car with 3.545 insted of 3.364. 

Hi, Your welcome!  I believe i had the US 4 speed diff so something like 3,7:1  ??   (Maybe i had a 3,5 in i don't know.. i now have the 3,9 in it i believe.. (I am sure that it was the original Dutch car diff that came with the Fs5C71b  transmission.)

Personally i never have heard of a 3,364?  Thats a low one!   I only knew the 1:3,5  1:3,7  1: 3,9  and 1:4,11  

[Captain Obvious]

17 hours ago, xs10shl said:

Hypothetically, I'd be curious to know how you'd personally value a 240Z you were selling, which either has a period correct 5-speed swap, or a potentially even a factoy-equipped 5-speed?

Hmmm... Nothing like a well thought out follow-up question to get you to fill leaky holes in a previous opinion.  Haha!  

If I were selling a 240Z, I guess it would come down to the condition of the rest of the car and if I considered it "collectible" or not.

If I thought the car had solid standing as "original", then I could value the original factory equipped transmission higher (regardless if it were a 4 or a 5-speed). By that, I mean if someone could unquestionably prove that transmission was bolted to that motor left the factory in that car on day one, then I would probably consider that trans as having collector "originality" value. But only if the rest of the car supported that situation.

If the exterior had already been irreversibly changed (fender chopped out and flares added, spook instead of original front, etc) and the engine had been changed (someone swapped in an L28 but kept the original trans) and the interior had been irreversibly changed (roll bar), then having the original transmission would mean little to me. In that situation, I would NOT mention the trans being original in a for-sale ad.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to purchase a collectible 240Z. Now that the prices are rising so quickly, I guess I missed my opportunity. And since I won't be buying one, I guess I won't be selling one. "Driver quality" only for me, and the transmission thing is low on the list.

[UM240]

On 3/15/2021 at 12:18 PM, dutchzcarguy said:

Hi, Your welcome!  I believe i had the US 4 speed diff so something like 3,7:1  ??   (Maybe i had a 3,5 in i don't know.. i now have the 3,9 in it i believe.. (I am sure that it was the original Dutch car diff that came with the Fs5C71b  transmission.)

Personally i never have heard of a 3,364?  Thats a low one!   I only knew the 1:3,5  1:3,7  1: 3,9  and 1:4,11  

Hallo,  the normal Diff for the 4speed in the us was the 3.364  ,  so with the Euro 5Speed you have the 3,9  and with the last gear ratio of 0,852 it is the same overall ratio 3,3228 and no noisereduktion on our Autobahn 

Edited March 16, 2021 by UM240
2n

[bartsscooterservice]

I like the long ratio of the US 4 speed, but it really is lacking an extra gear, to drive at higher speeds without going high in rpms ( more engine wear ) or the reach a higher top speed. At the time in the US it would have been enough. At least it's a long ratio 4 speed with low gearing diff, so 120/140km/h it's still acceptable on the motorway to come along with modern traffic. 

I hate that it doesn't have a 5 speed, but then again I'm thinking to myself just keep it original US spec, i;m fine with it.

 

[inline6]

A comparison of RPMs and speeds in gears between the US spec 4 speed, 3.36 and stock tire size vs. a 240SX 5 speed, 4.11 and 196/55-16 which will go on my car.  This tire size is a bit small perhaps.  But, I made a slight miscalculation before I bought them, and I am trying to keep the tire from rubbing at all on my stock sheet metal (and the car will have aftermarket springs which will lower it also).

 

Besides the high RPM of the 4 speed for interstate travel, another thing I do not like about the 4 speed is the gap between 2nd and 3rd.  Performance is decent in first and second, but then a noticeable lull when then shifted to third.  

Edited March 21, 2021 by inline6

[bartsscooterservice]

Maybe they did it because of fuel economy bragging ? Or just did not bother to give americans a 5 speed

[bartsscooterservice]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:53 AM, dutchzcarguy said:

I told it before but a euro 240z HAS ORIGINAL a 5 speed gearbox with a 3,9 (i believe) : 1 diff.    The type Is a Fs5C71B  gearbox.

In the Netherlands the 240z came a bit later then 10-1969..  it was more halfway 1970?  I don't know if the Fs5C71A gearbox was ever in a 240z in the european market.. could be..

Why there is no difference in price.. i don't know.. i only know that i would pay more for an original euro car with 5 speed. Much! more rare..

Well I have one now ( 2 actually now) Mart. Pretty sure the A came in the European market. They are just even harder to find because most z's rotted away here and where scrapped. I think I Just got lucky.