Help with Front Bumper mount Area

[dutchzcarguy]

How to use a SPIRIT LEVEL - The DIY Doers - YouTube

Let her explain to you how to use a level..  (NO NOT UPSIDEDOWN!!)

[Patcon]

Actually small torpedo levels like this normally have straight tubes and can be used on any of the 4 edges

[240ZBUILTBYME]

1 hour ago, dutchzcarguy said:

In both pictures you have to keep the spirit level right up not upside down!  OEFFF!!!  🙈

Depends on the level and shape of the glass, a lot can be used both ways. 

[CanTechZ]

7 minutes ago, Patcon said:

Actually small torpedo levels like this normally have straight tubes and can be used on any of the 4 edges

Agreed, the top edge even has a V-groove to align on curved items like pipes. Mine's not a precision level but when I checked it on flat and angled surfaces the reading appears the same for both long sides.

Edited April 22, 2021 by CanTechZ

[Namerow]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:08 AM, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

Can anybody tell me if the front bumper bolt holes are meant to be level? I imagine they are. 

As you continue on this (unwanted) parted of your Z restoration, I think you will be well served by acquiring a couple of laser levels.  These have become less expensive since they were first introduced to the D-I-Y community and can be really helpful for checking and restoring panel and fixture alignments. 

One of the big challenges for these types of alignment measurements is, 'Aligned (or level) relative to what?' For example, the fact that the RHS bumper mount holes are level (as in, inertial level c/o a torpedo level) doesn't tell you whether they're at the same elevation (as in, height above the floor) as the LHS holes.  As an another example, ask yourself, 'How do I make measurements relative to the centerline of the car?'

I suggest the you buy a 'plumb' laser and a 'crosshair' laser.  The plumb laser will let you check whether you car's main structure is straight (use the reference points and dimensions shown in the frame diagram in the 'Body' section of the FSM).  The crosshair level will let you check alignments for various surfaces and reference points (e.g. bumper bolt holes) relative to a consistent inertial reference.  It will also let you be sure that the whole car is sitting level, left-to-right (front-to-rear can be done, too, but not so conveniently).  The combination of both laser types will be useful when you do your frame rail replacements. 

Of course, you can do all of this work without the lasers.  The lasers just make it easier and reduce the amount of guesswork.

[240ZBUILTBYME]

14 minutes ago, Namerow said:

As you continue on this (unwanted) parted of your Z restoration, I think you will be well served by acquiring a couple of laser levels.  These have become less expensive since they were first introduced to the D-I-Y community and can be really helpful for checking and restoring panel and fixture alignments. 

One of the big challenges for these types of alignment measurements is, 'Aligned (or level) relative to what?' For example, the fact that the RHS bumper mount holes are level (as in, inertial level c/o a torpedo level) doesn't tell you whether they're at the same elevation (as in, height above the floor) as the LHS holes.  As an another example, ask yourself, 'How do I make measurements relative to the centerline of the car?'

I suggest the you buy a 'plumb' laser and a 'crosshair' laser.  The plumb laser will let you check whether you car's main structure is straight (use the reference points and dimensions shown in the frame diagram in the 'Body' section of the FSM).  The crosshair level will let you check alignments for various surfaces and reference points (e.g. bumper bolt holes) relative to a consistent inertial reference.  It will also let you be sure that the whole car is sitting level, left-to-right (front-to-rear can be done, too, but not so conveniently).  The combination of both laser types will be useful when you do your frame rail replacements. 

Of course, you can do all of this work without the lasers.  The lasers just make it easier and reduce the amount of guesswork.

Thanks namerow Yes 👍🏽 this is on my tools list already. I guess I didn’t give an explanation of why I wanted to know the level orientation of the bumper mount holes.

At the moment trying to assess the damage and decide on a course of action. If I decide to repair the damage, which way am I going to need to pull the panel? Just forward? Or up/ down as well? Is it easier to use donor panels and patch it? This is what’s swirling around my head computer atm!

When I started making the rotisserie mounts I noticed one side was different to the other, as both sides are damaged I wanted a frame of reference to know which side is closer to where it’s supposed to be.

[Racer X]

3 hours ago, dutchzcarguy said:

HUH??  WHAT?? 🙊

Unless the car in these pic are upside down ... then you can mearsure it this way but as i can see the airbubble in the spirit level IT'S NOT!  You CAN'T use a spirit level that way!  In the middle green glass is a small bow.. this has to be with his bow always UP..

Am i the only one that sees this????  

You have to measure this with the spirit levels top side your holding it upsidedown.. this never works! 🙈

In both pictures you have to keep the spirit level right up not upside down!  OEFFF!!!  🙈

Some spirit levels have a barrel shaped glass, rather than curved. That way, the level can be used on top of, underneath, or beside the object being checked.

[Patcon]

Direction...

If you replace it, you have to source the part - done

Cut it off realign, weld, grind and limit distortion

If you repair it, you have to pull, beat and reshape it back to where it should be but all the metal is there in the close to proper amounts.

One concern is if the car took that big of a shot then the whole side of the engine bay could be off. Then you cut and patch it but the repaired section is still not in the right place.

My car was put on a frame rack and needed some significant pulling to get back to where it needed to be

[240ZBUILTBYME]

So I bought a cheap self leveling level laser. And surprisingly

a) I did a great job of making the chassis jig square

b) I leveled the jig well

c) my car is not as crooked as first thought

basically every point I threw at the laser turned out to be perfectly level. 
 

lower radiator support 

 

bumper mount holes (we will come back to these later)

 

top and bottom of front strut towers (couldn’t get a decent picture of the top measurements but they were level)

 

Front frame rails all sweet, line is hard to see but it’s there

 

 

also measured outer rockers which look good

 

and rear strut towers 

 

this gives me great confidence that the damage it saw was cosmetic to the front nose and not structural. Before I started building the chassis jig I did drop some plum bobs from the strut towers and measured diagonally to check the chassis was square before commencing building the jig. My measurements were 1mm different so I’m confident the frame is square enough. Is this good enough or would you guys still advise buying a plum laser and checking datum points from chassis diagram. 

cheers Ryan

[240ZBUILTBYME]

Now... the bad news. The bumper mounts are way off if I go by the level measurements mike gave me. (Frame rails and bumper mount holes should be on the same level) 

basically the holes are pointing down. My theory is during the accident the nose was pushed down, when they repaired they didn’t bring it back up to where it used to be. Somehow they were able to get all the panels to line up enough to make the car look ok. 

so now I at least feel I have a frame of reference as to where everything is and where it should be. Now comes the hard part... lol

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by 240ZBUILTBYME

[Patcon]

So what are your plans?

This will be hard for me to explain but I will try. Ok, the holes aren't level. So either the front hole has to move up or the back hole has to move down.  The material above the holes appears fairly smooth, so where does the extra metal come from to move a hole down? Or where does the extra metal go to move the hole up?

Now one possiblity Is the wrinkling behind the radiator support if smoothed would allow the bottom of the radiator suppprt to move forward. This would allow the whole triangle of the head light bucket to pivot making the bolt holes more level. Does anyone know if the radiator support is supposed to be plumb in the chassis?

Ryan was your radiator support removed or replaced?

[240ZBUILTBYME]

15 minutes ago, Patcon said:

So what are your plans?

This will be hard for me to explain but I will try. Ok, the holes aren't level. So either the front hole has to move up or the back hole has to move down.  The material above the holes appears fairly smooth, so where does the extra metal come from to move a hole down? Or where does the extra metal go to move the hole up?

Now one possiblity Is the wrinkling behind the radiator support if smoothed would allow the bottom of the radiator suppprt to move forward. This would allow the whole triangle of the head light bucket to pivot making the bolt holes more level. Does anyone know if the radiator support is supposed to be plumb in the chassis?

Ryan was your radiator support removed or replaced?

To be honest I was going to purchase the clean front cut I have found and wait until I am up to replacing/repairing front frame rails, then I will remove the radiator support. My uncle and I will then reassess repairing or replacing or a combination.

yes my theory is the same as yours, if the damage is pulled out the front nose/wheel well area the front will lift and bring everything closer to where it needs to be. I think once everything is blasted and the radiator support removed we will Be able to see what needs to be done. At the moment there’s a lot of guess work. 

I can see areas on the radiator support where the spot welds broke due to the crash it had. I can see where they’ve tacked it back together in places. It was not replaced as the accident damage is very evident. 

my goal will be to build my rotisserie and get it blasted. Then the fun will begin. 

Ryan