77 280z Restoration

[Av8ferg]

Great responses gents,  thanks,   
 

ZedHead and Captain Obvious regarding GM HEI.   Yes, I agree the placement of the HEI under the distributor cap was a bad location causing premature heat failures.  Heating and cooling of electrical components over time isn’t good nor the constant vibration. I know people,have successfully put these in.  There are so many manufacturers of these.  Unfortunately, you never know what you’re getting anymore.  So many companies rush off to China to save money and end up with inferior products.  The problem is you can never tell what you are getting.  Even the Delphi ones are probably made there in the same couple factories.  Go on Amazon and look at the review for these GM HEI modules….they are not good.   
ZedHead, I did some research and you’re correct.  MSD was bought out and now has moved its production from El Paso to China.  Many unhappy customers with the later Chinese models.  Same reasons stated above.   It’s hit or miss it appears.  I can go on a long rant about what Chinese production has done to America.  The bottom line overseas production has benefited companies balance sheet while killing US jobs and undermining our national security.  I resist to say more.  
So after some research I’m considering another option.  Pertronix has a product called the Digital HP module.  Saw only one short thread on here from 2017.  Again, I’m not trying to get power increase.  I’m looking for reliability.  ZedHead commented on the 2017 thread but the price had just hit the market and there was little to no feedback from car owners.  After 5 more years the reviews are good.   This product is made in the US, had good reviews and wires up exactly like the MSD at almost 1/2 the MSD cost.   Amazon sells it and had free returns.  I might test it and report back my findings.  95% 5 star reviews on both Amazon, Jegs and Summit.  Haven’t read a bad review yet online, 
Right now I can’t confidently drive the car any distance from my house and while it’s running fine now if I drove 25 miles from home and I had another failure again i won’t be happy and it would be a major inconvenience .   If the car is not reliable then it defeats the purpose of what I’ve done to this point.   
I’m willing to be the 280z  Guinea Pig.   If it’s not good I’ll return it.  
 

 

 

 

[280Zrewind]

My project combining one complete rust bucket with one no rust, but missing stuff 78 Z isn’t running yet, but in both the OE electronic ignition were making a strong spark.  Tested it by powering up the system and spinning the distributor. Their idea of putting the control box in the cabin make have been a good one.  For now I’m going w the OE and time will tell if I made a good choice.  

I grew up with 60’s vehicles when break point ignitions and carburetors were the standard and both are not without their problems. It almost seemed like a miracle to me when I bought my new 76 Z with it’s ‘advanced’ systems.  

[Av8ferg]

I agree, I want to go to carbs too at some point.  I may start rebuilding my other L28 (one that came out of my car) and go the SU carb route there.  Would probably forgo the old points approach just because the newer systems are better and more reliable.  I have a set of SU carbs that I sent out to a forum member to do some refurbishing.  I’d honestly rather have carbs on this car now.  EFI was the fastest route to getting it driving,  I’d be interested in doing this mod over this winter.  He’s a busy guy so not sure if those carbs will be ready that soon, but definitely want to go with the carbs 100%.   I may be opening a can of worms but I don’t think the whole world would have changed to electronic ignition systems to if it were a worse technology.  Points require more care and maintenance.  
With my ZX distributor I don’t think I can go back to he 77 ignition?  I’d need another distributor and I think the general consensus is the ZX distributor and ignition system is an upgrade to my stook 77.   The faster and cheapest way forward is just getting a solid module that isn’t 35+ years old.  Hopefully the Pertronix Digital HP is the answer and it will also work with my future carb set up. 

[Zed Head]

The problem is the American owners ripping off their American customers.  Not the people who make the product.  The owners love it when people bash "China".  It's their cover.  They just keep raking in the easy money while everyone complains.  The owners are the ones that set the low standards and accept the low quality product to pass on to the disappointed consumer.

Anyway, you'd hope that a company introducing a new product would put the effort in to using the best design elements.  But I wouldn't be surprised if there was just a tiny ignition module inside that big shiny Pertronix box.  Probably assembled in America but the parts made elsewhere.  Sorry, it's just today's reality.

If I was looking for reliability I'd try to adapt a system from a modern car.  Today's cars are designed for low maintenance and low emissions.  They can't have ignition systems failing.  Most cars have computer controlled ignition but I wonder if some don't have the older style still.  I tried to find an OEM GM HEI module but it looks like they're all aftermarket now.

[Zed Head]

I I was starting over I'd probably mount three AC Delco modules in the old ignition box and wire them up with a switch that allowed me to change from one to another.  AC Delco is OEM for the time I believe.  More expensive too, $36 versus $21, although that could just be name recognition.

The Pertronix box looks interesting though.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,1977,camaro,5.0l+305cid+v8,1035111,ignition,ignition+control+module+(icm),7172

https://www.acdelco.com/

[Zed Head]

It looks a lot like the MSD box.  The wire colors are even similar.  Makes a person wonder.  Who knows.  Should be fun.  It does multi-spark which should help idle smoothness.  Good luck.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0247/6913/4628/files/512.pdf

[280Zrewind]

I may be sorry later, but for fuel I bought the Fast fuel injection control system designed for the Z and aftermarket injectors.  That system has oxygen sensor feedback in the exhaust and can handle a variety of setups.  It does away with the cold start valve and a number of other devices that were part of the OE fuel injection system. 

I don’t know if anybody else is having this problem, but my camshaft kit bought through Motorsport Auto (a Schneider cam) is being held up because Schneider’s magic formula that goes in the break in oil is on back order.  I promised I wouldn’t start the engine w/o the formula if Motorsport would send me the cam kit so I could get the head to the machine shop.  They won’t budge.   

[Av8ferg]

ZedHead, I noticed that wiring colors were the same too.  I think it was done so the swap from MSD is plug and play.  

[Av8ferg]

There is some good Fast EFI videos from 280z installs.   
 

 

[280Zrewind]

Thanks!   I’ve seen some of them.  Let’s hope this choice of system doesn’t make me guilty of excess cleverness.  😁

[SteveJ]

A friend of mine has been running the FAST system for a while. He has driven his Z to California and back at least a couple of times with it.

[Av8ferg]

I called the and spoke to a Pertronix Rep today on the phone to ask questions about their Digital HP Ignition unit.  The rep was super nice , very knowledgeable and said the ignition unit should work just fine on the Z.  I was worried about the tachometer having indication problems but he assured me there a 2 different wires to use based on what type of signal the tach gets.  Worst case he said call us and we’ll walk you through it and find a solution if in the rare circumstance it doesn’t work. 
I was impressed with the guy’s knowledgeable and amazed I could call a company and within 2 mins be on the phone with a tech rep.  He also said the product was released in 2016 and they spent 18 months engineering this unit after asking what customers wanted.  He verified is was built in the USA.   I don’t expect all the components to be made in the USA.  When I was 21 I worked for Bose, the speaker manufacturer.  I worked at the factory in Framingham, MA.  Almost all the electrical sub-components were from Asia but we made the speakers right there in MA.  That’s not unusual in the electronics industry.  
So I have one of their boxes on the way as well as a new .32 ohm coil.  He said it was designed for that coil in mind and that the tach signal won’t come from the coil anymore but the ignition unit itself so i should not have any tach issues. 
I plan to put it in the passenger footwell where the stock Ignition Unit went.   Safer to be in the cabin vs the engine.  
I’ll report to you all my findings, detail the install and all the pros and or cons I run into.