Headlight cover install for cheaters

[kats]

2 hours ago, xs10shl said:

Kats, i was certainly thinking of the time you posted your photo years ago as I was carefully drilling holes!  How nice it would have been for sets like these, with captured nuts, to be more widely available. 

Of note, I remember a thread where we discussed these hole positions as shown on your buckets, and that they may represent an "early" pattern version.  Then some time later I recall seeing a photo of a very early car which showed the other, more common style of pattern (similar to what I'm using).  Was that ever really fully decided one way or another- one pattern was "early-style", and the other "later-style"?

Hi , I was going to put this when I saw your fine work . 
Long time ago , I was not sure about screw hole positions. But many people have showed many examples , now I think we have fully decided about it. 
The positions in your cover is the early-style, 63900-E4126 (R.H.) / 63901-E4126  (L.H.)  . This is proven by the parts catalog . Those numbers were first ones shown in the catalog. And we can see the picture of them in the DATSUN COMPETITION parts catalog with those numbers. And like you  showed us ,  we are seeing it that E4126 has the “positions “  which is regarded as “early-style “  with the original parts box . 

Kats

[kats]

And I would like to emphasize this , the difference of the cover lens shape . 
I made a poor drawings over the pictures, could you get what I am going to say ? 
 

The early-style E4126 has significant ridge on the lens which I think it has more correspondence with the bonnet , head light case . 
 

When E8726 was introduced, the screw positions were altered and also cover lens shape was changed. E8726 has lost its ridge , became much gentle curves . 
 

Not only the cover lens, also trim ring had changed its shape accordingly. 
 

Kats

[kats]

One more thing, 

We used to , We were thinking E8726 is the early one . Due to its screw positions, it was very common to have crack on the lens at  the front edge . Like you showed us , the location of the front edge is somewhat difficult to fit without certain gap . Then if the screw tightened more than needed , it cracks the lens . 
 

Then we thought, that is why Nissan changed screw positions not to have a crack over there. The E4126 seemed developed one . 
 

Today we know that story can’t be applied because we know the part number tells us which one is early.
So what was the reason for changing the screw positions when Fairlady 240Z-L introduced? 
This is my guess, E4126 was likely having moisture entering into the cover lens when it was in the rain or snow . That caused loss of intensity of the head light beam .

Then engineers might put a screw at the front edge of the cover lens . 
 

What do you think about it? 
 

Kats

[HS30-H]

7 hours ago, kats said:

Hi , I was going to put this when I saw your fine work . 
Long time ago , I was not sure about screw hole positions. But many people have showed many examples , now I think we have fully decided about it. 
The positions in your cover is the early-style, 63900-E4126 (R.H.) / 63901-E4126  (L.H.)  . This is proven by the parts catalog . Those numbers were first ones shown in the catalog. And we can see the picture of them in the DATSUN COMPETITION parts catalog with those numbers. And like you  showed us ,  we are seeing it that E4126 has the “positions “  which is regarded as “early-style “  with the original parts box . 

Kats,

What about the E4100 type?

Post #95 here:

 

[kats]

1 hour ago, HS30-H said:

Kats,

What about the E4100 type?

Post #95 here:

 

Hi Alan, I have no idea what does E4100 look like . Big home work ! 
Kats

[HS30-H]

9 minutes ago, kats said:

Hi Alan, I have no idea what does E4100 look like . Big home work ! 

My point being that E4100 would - normally - precede E4126, right?

I think it is easy for us to get slightly lost within terms such as 'early' and 'late', even if they are useful terms. 'Early' doesn't necessarily mean earliest or first, for example. 

I have to admit that I'm still not convinced that a 'three screw' design ever existed in full production, and the E4100 type certainly seems to have been a four screw design as shown from the hardware count.      

[HS30-H]

On 3/17/2022 at 8:52 PM, xs10shl said:

Final initial thoughts:  I've heard before that it's best to install these covers with the chrome surround in mind, which is the method that I attempted first.  In the end: other than to make sure the chrome piece basically fit and aligned with the cover, I did not find it all that useful to fit everything while trying to hold the metal surround in position, in addition to holding the cover.  Since the metal is flexible, I figured that I could more easily massage the chrome to fit around the cover, vs letting it dictate where the cover would be installed.   Perhaps I got lucky this time- others may have alternate tips and tricks to share. 

The end result is, IMHO, a superior and easier-to-implement solution to the "3-hole" mounting tab that Nissan provided.  As as I said before, no one will ever know, because I'm not telling anyone!

 

I used the same Rivnut technique when installing headlamp covers on my 1970 Fairlady Z-L based 432-R replica project car. I regard the Aluminium Rivnuts as sacrificial (it is easy to strip the threads) as they can be drilled out and replaced fairly easily. I added a little dab of two pack epoxy adhesive to mitigate any risk of spinning.

I've found it hard to find the correct screws. The originals were - I believe - what's known as a 'Raised Head' JIS screw with a chrome finish. They are a countersunk design with a slightly domed head which look so much nicer than the common Philips and Pozi types in stainless. I'm still searching for a good supply as I have three cars with headlamp covers and no spare screws...   

[Namerow]

Have a look here...

https://belmetric.com/screws/oval-phillips-machine/

[HS30-H]

3 hours ago, Namerow said:

Have a look here...

https://belmetric.com/screws/oval-phillips-machine/

Thank you! That's very kind.

However, that's pretty much the same type of fastener I have found local to me. They are not quite the same as the chromed JIS items, which have a far narrower 'cross', and that delightful JIS dot on the crown.

There is at least one supplier in Japan with very good replicas of the OEM screws, but they are expensive. I was hoping to find an inexpensive local supply, but so far no luck.

[xs10shl]

10 hours ago, HS30-H said:

I used the same Rivnut technique when installing headlamp covers on my 1970 Fairlady Z-L based 432-R replica project car. I regard the Aluminium Rivnuts as sacrificial (it is easy to strip the threads) as they can be drilled out and replaced fairly easily. I added a little dab of two pack epoxy adhesive to mitigate any risk of spinning.

I've found it hard to find the correct screws. The originals were - I believe - what's known as a 'Raised Head' JIS screw with a chrome finish. They are a countersunk design with a slightly domed head which look so much nicer than the common Philips and Pozi types in stainless. I'm still searching for a good supply as I have three cars with headlamp covers and no spare screws...   

 

the epoxy trick is a good one that I should have considered.

RE screws.  I can't say for certain whether my screw bags hadn't been swapped out at some point-- or perhaps even that these covers are simply decent replicas in an original boxes, as opposed to genuine Nissan.  Thankfully, they look good enough for my current need.  I also could not find chrome oval machine screws that were as broad as the ones I had. I've included a picture of the screw that was in the bag, as well as the longer stainless screw I used. Perhaps you can add your thoughts.

As Murphy's Law would have it, I found an Astro 1441 Metric rivet kit this AM which I purchased, a mere 5 days after giving up on finding one, and installing SAE rivets.  I think the SAE rivets have a slightly larger diameter, so I wont have to consider tempting fate by attempting a re-install of the metric rivets in place of what I have now.

Edit: just for kicks, I examined a screw from another set I had, and it looks to be genuine, when compared to the other hardware I have.  It's the only one that has a pointed leading edge.  Unfortunately, I only have this single screw.

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by xs10shl

[kats]

14 hours ago, HS30-H said:

My point being that E4100 would - normally - precede E4126, right?

I think it is easy for us to get slightly lost within terms such as 'early' and 'late', even if they are useful terms. 'Early' doesn't necessarily mean earliest or first, for example. 

I have to admit that I'm still not convinced that a 'three screw' design ever existed in full production, and the E4100 type certainly seems to have been a four screw design as shown from the hardware count.      

Hi Alan, E4100 is before E4126 , I think so too. And they both have 4 screws , and the same screw positions,  so there would be some small change from E4100 to E4126 ? 
I need to find more clear photographs of the Z432 on a display stand at the 16th Tokyo Motor show.

If this car has three screws , then what part number would have been applied?  There would never be earlier number than E4100. 
 

Kats

Edited March 22, 2022 by kats

[kats]

8 hours ago, xs10shl said:

the epoxy trick is a good one that I should have considered.

RE screws.  I can't say for certain whether my screw bags hadn't been swapped out at some point-- or perhaps even that these covers are simply decent replicas in an original boxes, as opposed to genuine Nissan.  Thankfully, they look good enough for my current need.  I also could not find chrome oval machine screws that were as broad as the ones I had. I've included a picture of the screw that was in the bag, as well as the longer stainless screw I used. Perhaps you can add your thoughts.

As Murphy's Law would have it, I found an Astro 1441 Metric rivet kit this AM which I purchased, a mere 5 days after giving up on finding one, and installing SAE rivets.  I think the SAE rivets have a slightly larger diameter, so I wont have to consider tempting fate by attempting a re-install of the metric rivets in place of what I have now.

Edit: just for kicks, I examined a screw from another set I had, and it looks to be genuine, when compared to the other hardware I have.  It's the only one that has a pointed leading edge.  Unfortunately, I only have this single screw.

 

Side note , my 240ZG has old screws, maybe originals. And captive nut for the head light case is original for 240ZG.
Kats

Edited March 22, 2022 by kats