production number for 1969

[daddz]

kats,

I would suggest that for purposes of obtaining additional information that the data sheet you now possess not be published until you can obtain the regular production information. I think we can all agree to take your word with regard to what you have so far.

[MikeW]

Kats,

As far as I am concerned due to your personal contacts and investigations you have provided valuable information to the Z car community. I don't see how anyone could disagree or question your findings. If for whatever reason the source of your latest data would prefer that it not be published then I think you are right to respect that wish. Perhaps there is a good explanation for that wish and you could, for instance, get permission to publish the data with parts of it redacted. I would prefer that you don't do anything that would get your information source cut off.

[kats]

Thank you very much Bob,Mike.

I need good advices just like yours.I keep them in my mind.

And I want to make sure for all of you this,I did not invade into the factory nor steal the data sheet.This is true!!I said I am hegitating to show and I can not say where I have got.But it does not mean I stole:love: There is a complicated reason for this.

kats

[26th-Z]

Yes, we all have things we would rather not publish on the internet. I believe it is called "collector's private stock". But we can talk about them and that is what makes this discussion fun.

I must say how relieved I am to hear that an S30 was constructed before an HLS30.

[HS30-H]

The answer is,HS30-00001 was earlier than HLS30-00003.Why I asked this,I just want to tell all of you HS30-00001 was made in JUL 1969　to cross-reff with my old data. Is not this great,is it!Alan!! HLS30-00002 was also made in JUL but it is earlier than HS30-00001.HLS30-00003 was made in AUG 1969.

Hello Kats,

This is excellent information. Thank you very very much indeed.

I was told in Japan many years ago that 'HS30' RHD 'Datsun 240Z' models were being made from the very earliest days of pre-production preparations ( which always made perfect logical sense to me ), and your newly-uncovered data confirms that fact. Thank you.

Please tell me how everybody thinks about posting a picture of the data sheet.Of cource I wish nobody in Japan(except me) see this thread.If I post a picture,I can show you actual facts but it does have a risk of ALL-ENGINE SHUT DOWN all lights are gone, get into the darkness then we may never get futher information from the factory.

I will echo what has already been said above, and urge you not to compromise your source just to please us. Your word and assurance ( and explanation for not publishing ) is totally trusted - so please protect the relationship that you are fostering with your source. In the long run, we will all benefit from being patient.

I quite understand your position. In my research on the factory competition cars I have been lucky enough to meet certain people and be given certain information, documents and photos that can not be published on public forums for fear of alienating and offending the source. So don't be worried Kats - I'm sure that everybody understands.

A phrase Sir Robert Baden Powell learned from the people of Ghana; "Softly, softly, catchee monkey"............

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

By the way, the following quotes are taken from the early pages of this thread:

The Z Cars for Export were Left Hand Drive models - No production Right Hand Drive 240-Z's were "produced" until very late Jan or Feb of 1970. There are no 1969 RHD 240-Z's.

No Right Hand Drive Datsun 240-Z's were "produced" in 1969.

The first Right Hand Drive (HS30) 240-Z was produced in late Jan or Feb of 1970.

Everything about the history of the Z Car seems to prove it was "centered" solely around the USA market.

The history of the design and development, production and sales of the LHD Z - shows clearly that the "240-Z" is the "Daddy". I don't believe that's a personal "bias" - just a presentation of the facts.

Yes, the total story of the Z would have to include a short chapter about all the various minor incarnations for nitch markets. However if you think they are "as important", "as significant" as the HLS30 - - then I have to believe you have missed the real "Story Of The Z Car".

As the thread started with Kat's original post - it covered 1969 production. In that context "E" applied to the HLS30's - If we were talking about 1970 production then "E" would cover both HLS and HS models.

What I said was the 240-Z was specifically designed for the US market - and every other variation was simply a side benefit to Nissan of no where near the significance in the overall scheme of things.

The Fairlady Z's are interesting and they allowed Nissan to sell a few more cars in their home market - but your assertion that they were "as important", "as significant" or evenly weighted in the design consideration of the Z - are simply - well - your opinion. However I would suggest that your opinion is not based on any real facts nor sound logic.

The real story of the Z Car - is carried by the Datsun 240-Z - as specified, as designed, as built for the American market.

......... and that's only on this thread - let alone any others.

Thank you for being such fun to quote, Carl. I had a couple of extra slices of toast with my breakfast this morning.

Alan T.

[kats]

Thank you Alan,

I am glad that you enjoyed it very much.To be honest with you,I was not for sure about your saying "1969 RHD 240Z".Everytime I think about the red,very low VIN HS30 we know,with regard your saying,why there were big time differences between HS30-00001 and 00034.The 00034 has many parts which were applied in early to mid 1970.There were only aproximately thirty cars between them,that is why I was not for sure HS30-00001 was made in 1969.

I think Carl just needs amend his website, just a little work, Alan. Some people may think I am a weathercock,but I do not think I am a kind of man.I just want everybody to enjoy this topic.Hey,today is my Birthday:)

I will tell all of you about much detail later,but for now,I just want to put this.

The data sheet got published date "25th JUN 1969" just a week after when I was born.

Thank you,

kats

[HS30-H]

Thank you Alan,

I am glad that you enjoyed it very much.To be honest with you,I was not for sure about your saying "1969 RHD 240Z".Everytime I think about the red,very low VIN HS30 we know,with regard your saying,why there were big time differences between HS30-00001 and 00034.The 00034 has many parts which were applied in early to mid 1970.There were only aproximately thirty cars between them,that is why I was not for sure HS30-00001 was made in 1969.

Hello Kats,

First of all - very best wishes to you on your birthday ( and its on Father's Day too! ). Many happy returns of the day.

Regarding HS30-00034 - we already knew roughly when that particular car was made. At least - judging from the parts that were bolted onto the bodyshell - we think we know when the car rolled off the production line. We even know a good deal about HS30-00004 - so the fact that both cars rolled off the production line in calendar year 1970 is not in dispute ( even if that does not prove when their bodyshells were made ). We know that there was a BIG gap in export market HS30 production.

What has always annoyed / frustrated me is the assumption that this in some way proved that HS30-00001, HS30-00002 & HS30-00003 were also made in 1970. It is somewhat surprising that such assumptions have been allowed to be used as some kind of 'proof' against the integrity of the HS30 export model as part of the original lineup of S30-series Z models at the design, engineering and pre-productionisation stages of the process.

In short, if even a single HS30 was made so early in the production process, it shows that it must have been of significance to Nissan and must also have been a consideration at the design stages of the S30-series Z. We already know that the RHD domestic models were a significant part of that process - even if Carl Beck urges us to believe that they were insignificant:

The Fairlady Z's are interesting and they allowed Nissan to sell a few more cars in their home market - but your assertion that they were "as important", "as significant" or evenly weighted in the design consideration of the Z - are simply - well - your opinion. However I would suggest that your opinion is not based on any real facts nor sound logic.

..... so proof that an Export market RHD car was also amongst the first cars produced helps us to understand a little more of the overall picture - especially with regard to those design, engineering and productionisation processes.

I think Carl just needs amend his website, just a little work, Alan.

In my opinion, he needs to start thinking about amending a little bit more than his website. To actively divide the S30-series Z 'family' of models, and to preach that one of the models completely overshadowed the design and engineering of the others, is divisive and misleading to say the least.

But I'm sure we will hear the same old stuff repeated, just the same as always.

Alan T.

[nwcubsman]

...snipped....I just want everybody to enjoy this topic.Hey,today is my Birthday:)

I will tell all of you about much detail later,but for now,I just want to put this.

The data sheet got published date "25th JUN 1969" just a week after when I was born.

Thank you,

kats

Kats,

Happy Birthday to you. Today is Father's Day in the USA, so I also want to wish a happy Father's day to all the dads out there, and to Matsuo san and Katayama san. Father's of the Z.

Thank you for keeping us up to date with your latest information. I was not a 240Z enthusiat when this topic was begun. I have read it with much delight and consider it a gift to all Z fans worldwide.

Best Regards,

[kats]

Thank you Alan,Bryan.

And thank you everyone who posted here.Also who are watching here.

The data sheet comes with a supplement.There is a figure showing where the VIN shold be stamped on the firewall.It said 330mm to the LEFT from the datum line(center of coronal plane) for S30,PS30,HS30.Then 350mm to the RIGHT for HLS30.For all of them,VIN number should be 5 numbers,like S30-XXXXX and its width including prefix should be 130mm. I measured mine,yes, approximatetly 350mm,but the width is only 75mm anyway.

One thing is interesting,all the first car(S30-00001,HLS30-00001,PS30-00001,HS30-00001) was born to be a test running car,the sheet says.

At this point on 25th JUN 1969,the sheet says only 3 cars rolled out from the factory,(so cross-reff with another data,we can easily find the other cars were still on the assembly line).But there is a assignment of duty for each car, which should surposed to be used for registration/ for press/for an examine of the factory/e.t.c. Totally there are 14 cars listed on the sheet.

There is a question for you,

#1 what are those car's VIN?what is a sequencial order of 14 cars?(I say again there might be a difference between the VIN and the results of roll out order.But the factory set the sequencial order for those 14 cars anyway.)

If you nail it down,I will give you my NOS 1969-1972 rally-clock.

kats

[26th-Z]

The data sheet comes with a supplement.There is a figure showing where the VIN shold be stamped on the firewall.It said 330mm to the right from the datum line(center of coronal plane) for S30,PS30,HS30.Then 350mm to the right for HLS30.For all of them,VIN number should be 5 numbers,like S30-XXXXX and its width including prefix is 130mm.I measured mine,yes, approximatetly 350mm,but the width is only 75mm anyway.

kats

Hey! Happy Birthday, Kats!

Does this information suggest that the VIN was stamped by hand and not automated after the chassis was assembled? Or, could this indicate that the firewall metal was stamped individually prior to attachment? Very interesting a spec would be made to the exact location of the VIN.

So you have records of the first 14 cars? Very nice!

[kats]

Good afternoon Chris,

Thank you!!please nail it down and get the NOS rally clock from me.

I made a big mistake about LEFT and RIGHT.I could not make it before you quote my last post.

330mm to the LEFT,350mm to the RIGHT.

Yes,14 cars with each duty and belongs to what section and seaquencial order for them.Remember,there are 4 kinds of Zs.S30,HLS30,PS30,HS30.

kats