production number for 1969

[kats]

that is all for 1969

[dohc]

Hi All,

I'd just like to add a couple of lines to thank Kats for the great info and pics (bring 'em on) that he is bringing to this site. It's great!

I'd also like to add my support for Alan in the massive argument that has ensued from the first post. I've driven enough old japanese cars (Isuzu Bellets and the like) and world cars (the Gemini or Impluse in the States) to know design concession when I see them.

The hand brake is the glaring example in the Zed, and I just want to say that if I did have to use it in an emergency I know which hand I want on the wheel, and it ain't my left:classic: (Same goes for hard driving now that I think about it)

Thanks for the spirited argument (discussion?) as I'm learning heaps.

Cheers,

Ross.

BTW: I've seen clay mockups of three possible body designs for the Zed and they are ALL RHD. I'll find the pics and scan them to add some wood to the fireLOL

[lordbiotree]

I'll have to give it to Kats. I think your a very great man. You have gone out of your way to give us information without a fee. Most of us here in the states haven't seen before. You'll Always be rembered.

As for Alan and Carl, All I have too say is both of you make very good points which I (most of us) have never really paid attention too.

I think this thread should be saved and not forgotten. It should be put in it's own folder. If you have to search to find it then it'll only be accessible to people who know what there looking for. As for me I'm saving it for future reference.

Just some Food-for-thought.

-Brandon

[lordbiotree]

One more thing. Isn't that a RHD prototype? There doesnt Look to be much of a difference in the body designs.

[kats]

Hello everyone,

I am so glad that many people enjoy these rare photos.But not so great quality makes some one irritate,does not it?

Alan,do not worry!!I always enjoy your posting here so please do not say apologize for it!! We all are loving Z,so we all are here,right? I know when you are talking about RHD or LHD,you become a bit obstinate(is this word suitable?)man.But is it bad thing?I do not think so.We know it is welcomed to post any kind of opinion of the Z that is related and oriented from one's true heart.(except for comercial).I can see Carl also welcomes your opinion and that argument sometimes gives us good ideas for

someone.This is great,is not it ?

Alan, I think we are always surprsing your magnificent knowlege about the Z and your HOT heart for the Z.And I agree with your many opinions posted here so far.But some opinions are different from mine.I can not list them up all because there are so many points. I can say,your effort for telling about RHD and Japanese market Z certainly inspires for a lot of people in the U.S.A.

I remenber when I met you first at FUJI speedway in 2001.I was surprised you talked perfect japanese and same time I was surprised you said you could not write nor read!!This is strange for me.Do you all know japanese people must study english from elementaly school but most of us can not speak.This is a big ploblem in Japan anyway.

During driving back home from FUJI speedway,we talk a lot.And find we are very very similler eachother but aiming completely oposite situation about Z.

I love Z so much,Alan you love Z so much,I want Japanese people to know what DATSUN 240Z(U.S. model) look like and how 240Z have been loved in the U.S.Then you want people in the U.S. to know what RHD Z look like and how RHD Z have been loved in Japan (and U.K and Australia).I always think why Japanese people do not look DATSUN 240Z,and always they are talking about Fairlady Z.Alan always think why people in the U.S. do not look RHD Z,and always talking about DATSUN 240Z.I want put some different views to Japanese people,Alan want to put some different view to people in the U.S....... We immediatly respected our different situation eachother and still this have been continued.What a interesting story,I think so by myself.

Today I post here is a photo of prototype Z's interior.This Z is the

one which I posted before"a lady with a Z".

Please note glossy steering column cover,a fog lamp switch above a hazard switch.How many people are able to find the steering wheel is different from DATSUN 240Z?This steering wheel is just same as Japanese(not sure for all RHD,tell us Alan!)Z.The difference is,a horn pad's position.This photo shows the horn pad is positiond just same surface of steering wheel.You already know DATSUN 240Z's horn pad is far inside from a steering wheel.The steering wheel's spokes have different angle between DATSUN 240Z and Fairlady Z.

And the hand is Mr.Matsuo's.He said light/wiper combo switch was a very special featuring of Z.And he said no car had equipped like this comfortable switch before the Z.Mr.Matsuo had been planing this switch for long time and he had tryed to persuade parts manufacure to make this switch.But first they did not say yes, even they said to Mr.Matsuo"Are you serious?you are crazy"because it was so difficult to combine light and wiper switch in a same piece.Mr.Matsuo kept negotiating,and finaly the manufacture managed to make this switch.

One more thing,you can see the watch on Mr.Matsuo's left hand.

This is a special order made of Citizen(Japanese manufacture).

They made only one for Mr.Matsuo and he was inspired by this watch to design Z's watch which is equipped only for Fairlady Z,

a watch which got stop watch mechanism.He also did his best to persuade manufacture to make the special watch for Z.

See you soon,

kats

[HS30-H]

Fantastic new information, Kats - thank you!

I don't want to dwell on it too much - but thank you sincerely for your encouragement to me. You do a very good and important job of raising awareness of the Export models in Japan, and I have great respect for that. We are both trying to achieve a balanced perspective, I think. It pains me when people call the RHD cars ( and the Domestic models in particular ) "irrelevant", as its clear that just as much effort went into them as the LHD models.

Those photos of production charts that you supplied for 1969 ( Japanese calendar year Showa 44 ) are things of wonder to me. Its so good to have an official document to back up those figures from Nissan Shatai that were in your first post. I think that the figures speak for themselves.

Regarding the Steering Wheel and Horn Pad question, I have never had the opportunity to compare the differences side-by-side in my hands. However, I believe that ALL ( RHD or LHD ) Export steering wheels were the same, and changed at the same time too. I always believed that the Japanese domestic model difference was for ergonomic reasons ( reach ) and wondered about safety too. I always point out the extra seat brackets on the Domestic bodyshells ( not fitted to Export models ) that allowed the seat runners to be unbolted from the floor and repositioned further forward - essentially allowing a very short driver ( especially Japanese ladies ) to reach the pedals and other controls safely and comfortably. I think this is part of the same thinking.

Matsuo san's combined rotary column switch / stalk is a thing of wonder too. One of the things that hit me when I first drove a Z was just how clever and convenient this was to use. I also saw and used the equivalent on many more modern Nissan models when I was living in Japan. Its a shame Matsuo san could not patent it. When I was living there, I also noted the regulation about switching from dipped headlamps down to sidelights when waiting at traffic signals or an intersection ( in order to avoid blinding oncoming traffic ) and I always thought this was a great idea. The rotary switch makes this operation just a finger-flick away. Excellent idea and excellent engineering. They last a long time too!

Matsuo san's Citizen watch is a lovely story too. It is so typical of a man like Matsuo to appreciate the fine things, and to be inspired by good design and engineering and apply that inspiration to his own designs.

The mystery lady with the prototype car photo is fascinating. I'm not sure if the photo is distorted, but the quarter window shape looks different from the final design, and possibly the windscreen rake also? There were a lot more of these clays and plastic prototypes than the previously published photos normally show. I am very very glad that Matsuo san has kept them, along with his original sketches for the body shapes. One day we will be able to give the team that designed, engineered and built the S30-series Z its true acclaim, and Matsuo san's collection will be valuable evidence for this.

This is all very inspiring Kats. Sincerely - thank you.

Alan T

[daddz]

"kats":

Many thanks for the information that you have been able to provide with regard to the S30 series (not that you haven't heard this before) as it has been sorely missed for many years in the United States.

My first question is with regard to the last of the S30 production, namely the 1977 and 1978 models; is there any record of "special" models such as the "Black Pearl" from '78 or the "ZAP" edition of 1977? While I appreciate the early S30 I continue to have an affinity for the '77 and '78 models and yet there seems to be so little information available for these cars in terms of production data and specification (i.e. the number of '78's painted Wine Red Metallic #611).

Alan:

Thanks for the crusade to help us Yanks understand that the S30 was built and designed in Japan regardless of where it was "planned" to be sold. Not to bring a new argument but, with regard to Albrecht Goertz, it is hard to dismiss his influence on another fine and yet under-appreciated car, the Toyota 2000GT, which has at least a common familial tie to Nissan by way of Yamaha. What are your thoughts on this matter?

Again, thanks to kats for all of his efforts for the S30 and thank goodness for Matsuo-san for keeping such fine records and photos.

[ZSource]

For those of you who might be interested in a rare Japan domestic market Fairlady Z that appears to have been built in December 1969 (s30-000669), follow this link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2420431650&category=6187

The car is in San Diego. I have no personal interest in this auction.

[v12horse]

This thread has been of great interest to me. I started reading it earlier today during a study break. While I was studying I was catching myself thinking about the contents of this thread. I then quickly went back to o-chem. I just finished reading everything after many study breaks.

Kats, you provided some great information on production dates and some very intriguing facts on the Z car. I am trying expand my knowledge on the Z car, and especially the Japanese versions. Thanks to people like you and Alan, and many others, this is possible.

Was the clock that you mentioned that was inspired by Matsuo's watch the "Calender Clock?" If it is the one I am thinking of it is very much like a watch due to the date display that a watch has. This is interesting to me because I bought a calender clock (Rally clock) for my 260z. It is a beautiful piece.

Alan, you are not wasting your time by posting pictures or articles on the site about the Japanese versions because many of us are really interested in them, and it is hard to come by information on the Fairlady's.

Eventhough I have been inactive on the forum for a few months due to my studies, threads like this keep me coming to this forum. The knowledge that members of this forum have is mindblowing to a Z fan such as I. I hope someday to take all of this information that I am learning about the Z car and use it as some do. I will stop babbling away. Thanks everyone on this thread for great insight.

Regards,

Ben

[kats]

Hello,every one

I am so sorry for this late replying.

"daddz"

I am sorry I do not have good information about late year Z like 77-78. I have been focusing on only earliest Z so far.

From 73late to78,these year's exported models are mistery for japanese people. When Z got big bumpers and bigger engine 2.6L and 2.8L,in Japan, engine was still 2.0L and same narrow bumpers.

I have to mention one thing,Mr.Matsuo had already left

NISSAN in summer 1973.Why?He did great great job did not he?

I do not know and Mr.Matsuo does not say much about it.

There must be some reason,and I guess NISSAN was not clever.

So maybe you know,2+2 was finished it's design in 1969.It was Mr.Matsuo's design and his team made many plastic design prototype for 2+2.This is a famous episode,when Mr.K saw 2+2 prototype's photo in 1969,he was surprised that Mr.Matsuo was thinking far ahead.Mr.K said to Mr.Matsuo"2+2 is great,but I want 240Z immediately!!"Because Mr.K was wishing he could start to sell 240Z in the U.S. some around OCT but he knew it was impossible.

On the other hand,Mr.Matsuo did not touch anything about bigger bumper nor many design changed in late 1973.

Even Mr.Matsuo said he did not design emblem with air out let

started from early 197‚P.At that time,"parts grope"had started

and they did actual design to meet various regulation changing.

He closed his S30 design team in late 1969.So I think Mr.Matsuo's work effected mainly 1969-1970 Z.But Mr.Matsuo said "I did ZG nose assembly,early 1971 I made ZG nose prototype and I equipped them and I tested in TOMEI highway in japan"

I think ZG is last Mr.Matsuo's design?

And I will start a new thread for some photo.

kats

[240 in OZ]

Kats

Please provide us with direction to the new thread when you start it via this one.

Thanks

[Carl Beck]

Kats Wrote:

K>I have to mention one thing,Mr.Matsuo had already left

K> NISSAN in summer 1973.Why?He did great great job did not

K> he? I do not know and Mr.Matsuo does not say much about it.

K> There must be some reason,and I guess NISSAN was not

K> clever.

Hi Kats (everyone)

Mr. Matsuo wrote a couple of comments about that.. in the Book "Fairlady Story Datsun SP/SR & Z".

Mr. Matsuo said; "After the Z, I was involved with the styling of the Laurel, the 230 Cedric and the hardtop version of the Gloria. The latter line of vehicles had almost disappeared, but I suggested basing it on a modified Cedric chassis. They were all well-received, but in the end, I still got into trouble as my boss said the Gloria now looked better than the company flagship Cedric.

With my habit of disregarding company lines of command and constantly going straight to the top, my superiors decided to move me sideways to head the interior development section. My father died during this period and I couldn't help feeling I had let him down.

Thinking about the future, I concluded the company didn't put enough emphasis on styling. They seemed to forget that no matter how strong the business is, if the vehicle isn't attractive, it simply won't sell. As I fought the system, my passion was fast starting to dwindle, but I decided I still wanted to make a difference regarding Japanese car design. In the summer of 1973 I left Nissan to set up my own consultancy."

Mr. Matsuo adds in an Epilogue:

"On reflection, I am sad to think of the way Nissan treated Mr. Katayama. Normally, the prepare a special job for their top executives to see them into their retirement, but nothing was done for him, even though the company's success in America was due entirely to his work.

I was also disappointed when my boss - the very man who was initially against the Plan A theme (the Z car..cjb)..stepped up to receive the annual President's Prize (the highest award in Nissan) for the Z Car; I wasn't even invited to the ceremony."

Mr. Matsuo concludes by saying;

"I would like to take this opportunity to express my thanks to the thousands of owners in America (and other export markets) who bought the Z during a period when Japanese vehicles were still being looked down upon. May your enjoyment of the Z-car continue for many years to come."

FWIW,

Carl B.