production number for 1969

[HS30-H]

Hello Kats,

I'm enjoying the way that you are presenting this new information. The specifications for the VIN / serial number stamping are fascinating.

There is a question for you,

#1 what are those car's VIN?what is a sequencial order of 14 cars?(I say again there might be a difference between the VIN and the results of roll out order.But the factory set the sequencial order for those 14 cars anyway.)

If you nail it down,I will give you my NOS 1969-1972rally-clock.

I'm not very good at winning things, but the sequence order fascinates me - so I'll give it a shot and perhaps make a fool of myself :

Here's my *guess*:

May 1969 - total 2 cars:

1 = *S30-00001

2 = *HLS30-00001

June 1969 - total 1 car:

3 = *PS30-00001

July 1969 - total 4 cars:

4 = *S30-00002

5 = *HLS30-00002

6 = *HS30-00001

7 = *PS30-00002

August 1969 - total 7 cars:

8 = *S30-00003

9 = *HLS30-00003

10 = *PS30-00003

11 = *S30-00004

12 = *PS30-00004

13 = *S30-00005

14 = *PS30-00005

Probably way off? :stupid:

Alan T.

[sjcurtis]

This is one amazing thread. Seeing the last imput by HS30H, seems like a very plausable production run. Given this could be a probable, my fasination is for the position of the next HS30-, HS30-00003 are there any thoughts.

cheers

Steve

[26th-Z]

Kats'

Your very first thread indicates that the 14th and 15th cars manufactured were "Canada" cars. Then you list how many cars - export and domestic - were made during each month. I don't believe Nissan made PS30s very quickly and suspect they made more S30 model variants to complete their own "domestic" line-up for show and testing. I also believe that Nissan was in the practice of making cars in pairs - two identical cars at a time.

Thanks Alan for taking the lead on this quiz. Here are my thoughts:

May 1969 - total 2 cars - one domestic, one export:

1 = S30-00001

2 = HLS30-00001

June 1969 - total 1 car - domestic:

3 = PS30-00001

July 1969 - total 4 cars - two domestic, two export:

4 = HS30-00001

5 = S30-00002

6 = S30-00003

7 = HLS30-00002

August 1969 - total 7 cars:

8 = S30-00003

9 = S30-00004

10 = PS30-00003

11 = PS30-00004

12 = S30-00005

13 = S30-00006

14 = HLS30-00003

[HS30-H]

I don't believe Nissan made PS30s very quickly and suspect they made more S30 model variants to complete their own "domestic" line-up for show and testing. I also believe that Nissan was in the practice of making cars in pairs - two identical cars at a time.

Thanks Alan for taking the lead on this quiz.

I'm bracing myself for the unexpected. There's a good chance that the order might not have been all that logical. I kind of like your attempt more than I like mine now - but we are probably both wrong ( ? ).......

When I was mulling over the possible order of that first 14, I tried to think what the situation would have been like within the different 'teams' of engineers, bean counters and management staff with regard to getting what they wanted. If I were there at the time, I'd be lobbying for my personal area of responsibility to be taken into account - so I'd want input on how certain things were done, and I'd want to know what 'rival' sections were doing that would affect me and my section doing our job properly. I imagined a kind of Tug-O-War between different individuals and sections trying to get what they wanted. Even the publicity and advertising guys would be wanting to get hold of cars to photograph and play with. For sure the competitions departments at Oppama and Omori would be in a big hurry to get their first guinea pigs to experiment on, and would be making suggestions and stipulations for what they wanted. Some kind of pecking order would have come into play.

And one thing keeps popping into my head; The sheer lack of time between these very first cars being made in dribs and drabs from May until the factory let the Japanese motoring press loose on complete 'production' cars in October, and debuted the cars for sales orders at the Tokyo Auto Show in November. No wonder they needed to make a few design and engineering modifications - the customers were doing most of the testing!

Alan T.

[26th-Z]

I wonderd about those things also, Alan. They made one of each in the begining. Logical, but then what? I assumed the 14th car was a Canada car from what Kats said at the begining ot this thread. The 14th and 15th were Canada cars, supposedly. Then I have noticed that both the Canada cars were silver. 26th and 27th are green. 40th and 42nd are both gold. So I imagined that the construction teams began making cars in pairs or mutiples so as to establish construction proceedure. But I cannot account for the various fitment of engines and I imagine that would have made the greatest impact.

How many guesses do I get, Kats?

[daddz]

I wonderd about those things also, Alan. They made one of each in the begining. Logical, but then what? I assumed the 14th car was a Canada car from what Kats said at the begining ot this thread. The 14th and 15th were Canada cars, supposedly. Then I have noticed that both the Canada cars were silver. 26th and 27th are green. 40th and 42nd are both gold. So I imagined that the construction teams began making cars in pairs or mutiples so as to establish construction proceedure. But I cannot account for the various fitment of engines and I imagine that would have made the greatest impact.

How many guesses do I get, Kats?

Chris,

This peaks my interest as I have always imagined a block of similar colored cars rolling off of the assembly line together and being reunited in just the way you have accomplished with 26 and 27. I also tend to imagine with regard to later S31 production that larger blocks of between five and ten were constructed with the same color combination? My only proof thus far is HLS30437667 and HLS30437661 both finished in 611 paint code. It would be wonderful to find notations with regard to color in the data that kats has ben able to obtain.

[kats]

Hello everyone,

I am very sorry for kept you waiting.Now I post an answer of the question.

-----------------------------------------------------------

May 1969 - total 2 cars - one domestic, one export:

1 = S30-00001 (Factory prototype 1)

2 = HLS30-00001 (Factory prototype 2)

June 1969 - total 1 car - domestic:

3 = PS30-00001 (Factory prototype 3)

July 1969 - total 4 cars - two domestic, two export:

4 = HS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 1)

5 = S30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 2)

6 = PS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 3)

7 = HS30-00001 (Primary Production prototype 4)

August 1969 - total 7 cars:

8 = S30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 5)

9 = S30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 6)

10 = S30-00005 (Primary Production prototype 7)

11 = PS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 8)

12 = HLS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 9)

13 = S30-00006 (Primary Production prototype 10)

14 = PS30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 11)

----------------------------------------------------

So,Alan and Chris, both of you were very close!!I was very surprised about your logical imagination.

Alan and Chris can share the rally clock half each!!Sorry I only have one clock.

I was not enough for the explanation about Factory prototype and Production prototype.The data shet said,The First 3 cars were Factory prototype and they HAVE serial(VIN) number.Primary Production prototype started from No.1 ~ was folloing their serial(VIN) number from the Factory prototype.

It siad,"After these cars,there will be Secondary Production prototype".

So,I think from 15th car,they must be Secondary Production prototype and we do not know which car was following,DOMES or EXPORT.

Anyway,according to Jan 1970 issued Japanese car magazine,it said there were 33 cars for Primary and Secondary production prototype.So,we can do 33 minus 11 = 22 cars for the Secondary production prototype.

I review the magazine today with the data I have got,I found the mgazine said some interesting things.

"Totaly 61 cars were prototypes,

25 cars were Plan-Design prototype for stage 1/2/3(I think NO- VIN)

3 cars were Factory prototype for 3 types(did not say S30 or HS or..)

33 cars were Primary/Secondary production prototype"

Thank you,

kats

[sakijo]

Kats:

Any reason why HS30-00002 was built before HS30-00001?

[kats]

Thank you sakijo,

I was stupid making a careless mistake.Here is correct one,

-----------------------------------------------------

May 1969 - total 2 cars - one domestic, one export:

1 = S30-00001 (Factory prototype 1)

2 = HLS30-00001 (Factory prototype 2)

June 1969 - total 1 car - domestic:

3 = PS30-00001 (Factory prototype 3)

July 1969 - total 4 cars - two domestic, two export:

4 = HLS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 1)

5 = S30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 2)

6 = PS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 3)

7 = HS30-00001 (Primary Production prototype 4)

August 1969 - total 7 cars:

8 = S30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 5)

9 = S30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 6)

10 = S30-00005 (Primary Production prototype 7)

11 = PS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 8)

12 = HLS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 9)

13 = S30-00006 (Primary Production prototype 10)

14 = PS30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 11)

--------------------------------------------------------

And I am still feeling some uneasy to discrib like "Primary" and "Secondy".To read Japanese words from the data sheet,I think it only means "first groupe" and "second groupe".So,please think very simple about it,there might be no special meanings for them.

Alan is the best man to interprit these factory terminology.

kats

[26th-Z]

Hi Kats!

Great information and most relevant to the conversation about S30-00002. I think it would be best to describe the factory prototype cars as those constructed to test the production process and the primary production cars as those intended to display and road test. Just think of this first family of the Z car! The very first generation!

[kats]

Hi,

I must organize threads which are oriented from me, following post is excerpt

from "Datsun 240z vs Fairlady-z432" #212 .

This scan tells us very interesting informations.Each car has each place(department) to belong and has subject to be used.

1 = S30-00001 Nissan Shatai (test drive)

2 = HLS30-00001 Q21 (production factory study)

3 = PS30-00001 Nissan Shatai (test drive)

4 = HLS30-00002 Nissan Shatai (test drive)

5 = S30-00002 Nissan Shatai (test drive)

6 = PS30-00002 K11 (registration)

7 = HS30-00001 Nissan Shatai (test drive)

8 = S30-00003 K11 (registration)

9 = S30-00004 F45 (K31 spare)

10 = S30-00005 F45 (K31 spare)

11 = PS30-00003 F45 (K31 spare)

12 = HLS30-00003 E81 (service; service manual? kats)

13 = S30-00006 F45 (for press/media)

14 = PS30-00004 F45 (K31 spare)

This report is dated 25th Jun 1969.

kats

-------------------------------------------------------------

And today I want to tell you is, we will be able to see new reports about developing S30 in early 1970 from a gentleman who was involved the test , he was a member of a groupe of aerodynamics analysis.

I can not show them right now, but from what he is saying about Euro car,

that is HLS30Q , Nissan was knowing Euro car needs to be more "sporty and stable in high speed driving" already.

So the project "HLS30Q high speed stability development" started from Feb 1970 ended at 27th Mar 1971.

And this report was made by department "K42" , now we learned K42 is a groupe of aerodynamics analysis.

After this test, Euro car got front and rear spoilers and stiff springs and shocks e.t.c.

To think about production volume in 1969, I think HLS30Q and HS30 were very few produced.I guess this happned because of not only Mr.Katayama wanted 240Z for his territory so strongly but also Nissan wanted to sell these(Euro) cars after the car had tested well and ready for Euro customer.

Why Nissan did (could) not prepare for all the territory before biggining the production ? I think Nissan just did not have enough engineers and test crews!!

kats

Edited December 16, 2008 by kats

[HS30-H]

And today I want to tell you is, we will be able to see new reports about developing S30 in early 1970 from a gentleman who was involved the test , he was a member of a groupe of aerodynamics analysis.

I can not show them right now, but from what he is saying about Euro car,

that is HLS30Q , Nissan was knowing Euro car needs to be more "sporty and stable in high speed driving" already.

Hi Kats,

Is the gentleman you mention Mr Michio TAKEI?

I am certainly looking forward to your posts.

To think about production volume in 1969, I think HLS30Q and HS30 were very few produced.I guess this happned because of not only Mr.Katayama wanted 240Z for his territory so strongly but also Nissan wanted to sell these(Euro) cars after the car had tested well and ready for Euro customer.

One of the problems that caused unexpected delays was in connection with European lighting regulations. The front turn signals / sidelights of the first two HS30s imported to the UK were found to be lower than the new regulations allowed, and Nissan were forced to reposition the indicator lamp units from another model onto the top of the front bumper for subsequent imports - which would have left a hole in the quarter valances. New - blanked off - quarter valances had to be designed and manufactured. The headlamps too were found to be illegal, and new units incorporating a 'side-light' bulb - and the wiring to suit - had to be fitted.

I have been told that communication problems between the UK franchise holders 'Datsun UK Ltd' and Nissan in Japan were at least partly to blame for the mistakes........

Alan T.