production number for 1969

[FilipeA]

Hi

Kats, you always bring great matters to discuss, and now this part is interesting, because I have a Euro 240z, with all the spoilers and specifications from factory and that interests me.

I hope you can put more information soon...

ALAN, as you know my car has the normal (US and Japan) front turn assemblied in blank colour, not orange, as it is a 1971 and all the others cars that came to Portugal has that 2 types that you mention...

I think you know the story, but correct me if iam wrong, i was told that Entreposto in Portugal ordered near 120 240z cars and this was the first and the last shippment of cars to here.

Here i can see that with that shippment, were delivery cars with all diferents types of front turn assemblies, the US/japan and the Euro/UK type, and my questions are

1 - Why they delivery cars with the 2 types of turn assemblies in Portugal, knowing the european laws?

2 - Which production date forward Nissan change them?

Now, another question that i think its interesting.

3 - Where could be Portuguese cars located, as they were different from anyother market, because all of them received the magnesium 432 wheels that were standard here.

Does they were packing apart, with the destination of Portugal??

Hope i can have answer for that

Filipe

Edited December 17, 2008 by FilipeA

[HS30-H]

ALAN, as you know my car has the normal (US and Japan) front turn assemblied in blank colour, not orange, as it is a 1971 and all the others cars that came to Portugal has that 2 types that you mention...

I think you know the story, but correct me if iam wrong, i was told that Entreposto in Portugal ordered near 120 240z cars and this was the first and the last shippment of cars to here.

Here i can see that with that shippment, were delivery cars with all diferents types of front turn assemblies, the US/japan and the Euro/UK type, and my questions are

1 - Why they delivery cars with the 2 types of turn assemblies in Portugal, knowing the european laws?

2 - Which production date forward Nissan change them?

Now, another question that i think its interesting.

3 - Where could be Portuguese cars located, as they were different from anyother market, because all of them received the magnesium 432 wheels that were standard here.

Does they were packing apart, with the destination of Portugal??

Filipe,

I'll try to answer some of your questions as best I can, but to be honest you stand a far better chance of getting closer to the full story yourself if you research it locally. I think if you are persistent with former ( and current? ) employees of Entreposto, you may well find out exactly what happened, and why........

But here are my shots anyway:

1. There's always the chance that minor differences in specs were due to Force Majeure rather than any kind of strictly-enforced plan. My guess is that the lighting differences in the Portuguese cars could well have been due to lack of certain parts being ready in time for shipment schedule, or even simple mistakes. I can imagine that the 'Option' clear indicator lenses might well have been in short supply at certain times if they were made in the same injection moulds as the amber units.

2. No idea on dates specific to the Portuguese cars I'm afraid, and the 'R-DRIVE' parts catalogs ( which - strangely - supposedly cover all the UK, Australian & 'European' market cars ) do not mention an 'Applied From' date for the clear indicator lenses. However, they do give the following:

*26120-E4300 ASSY-LAMP PARKING RH UNCOLOR, OP, UP TO 07-73.

*26125-E4300 ASSY-LAMP PARKING LH UNCOLOR, OP, UP TO 07-73.

There are also separate part numbers for the 'Uncolor' ( clear ) lenses on their own, and these too mention that they are 'OP' ( optional ) parts.

3. I don't know about anybody else, but to me the Portuguese market cars have always seemed to be something of a cut above most other LHD and RHD 'Export' models of S30-series Z. I think Entreposto - with their strong ties to Nissan, and their foothold in some of the emerging African markets which were so important to Nissan - made sure that the HLS30s they imported were well worth what their customers were being asked to pay. They knew what was available parts-wise in Japan, and they added quite a lot to the cars to make them a little bit more special.

I'm quite sure that these cars were manufactured expressly for Entreposto and the Portuguese market, and I would have thought - this just a guess - that they entered Europe via car carrier ships that stopped in north Africa or Portugal itself rather than en-route to the normal European ports in Holland, Belgium and UK.

If you want to get deeper into this Filipe, you have a good opportunity and every possibility to find answers to your questions locally. One of the people you might try asking is Mr Jose Megre, as I know he was well connected at Nissan during the period we are talking about and he might be able to tell you some interesting stories.

Did you find that your car had any special hand-written markings on it when you originally took it apart? I'm particularly interested to know what - if anything - was chalked onto the underside of the glovebox lining, or written on the steering column support bracket. Did you find anything?

The topic of the Portuguese market cars would justify a thread of it's own.

Alan T.

[zed74]

Alan,

It is logical the the "niche markets" being RH drive would precede a LH model given that Japan is RH drive.

I guess that sort of reality is not going to be easily digested & further debate will continue.

It was interesting to read the combined comments you posted from our friends in the US of A - and I would be so bold as to suggest it should provoke another case of "shoe throwing" from the RH to LH

[FilipeA]

Hi Alan

Yes!!! I found somekind of letter in steering column support bracket, it menas that it is written in the dash support. I will try to put pictures here as soon possible.

Filipe A

[NZeder]

I love reading this thread - but it does make me think that I should never have sold HS30-00016. It was very rusty but I could have placed it in storage and restored it - however the guy I sold it to was going to do that.

Interesting is that the HS30-00016 had date stamps that showed 1970 ie in the glove box was the original key number tag with a date stamp 1970, the seat belts were 1970 and even the plugs leads on the car (which needed to be changed, but I kept the original ones due to this fact) had a 1970 date on them.

Maybe I should track down the car and see if I can purchase it back.

Re Zed74 shoe throwing comment - re minds me of when I first registered said HS30-00016 on a website back all those 14+ years ago (IZCC I think and I was member 500+ish). I got an email back tell me not possible as HLS30-00016 was in the USA and this person told me that my car must be a fake as Nissan used the same numbering for both LH and RH cars. I did try and point out that I could also proof a few other numbers listed as HLS30 matched HS30 numbers so this person then said maybe they were wrong about the single numbering system. At the time that put me off visiting website to improve my knowledge of these cars.

I am pleased that Kats has been kind enough to

1. Find this info out

2. Share this info with us all

Also thanks to the others that have added good info/debate to this thread - I don't visit CZCC as often as I should

I am sure we are all much better off knowing this info (well those interested in the history of these lovely Japanese designed/assembled/manufactured cars)

Edited December 23, 2008 by NZeder

[Carl Beck]

Re Zed74 shoe throwing comment - re minds me of when I first registered said HS30-00016 on a website back all those 14+ years ago (IZCC I think and I was member 500+ish).

Hi Mike:

Your are IZCC #594

You first registered HS30 00016 16 March 1997

When you first registered it - as I recall, you registered it on the HLS30 register. I replied and ask if it was in fact HS30 00016 - which you then confirmed.

I got an email back tell me not possible as HLS30-00016 was in the USA and this person told me that my car must be a fake as Nissan used the same numbering for both LH and RH cars. I did try and point out that I could also proof a few other numbers listed as HLS30 matched HS30 numbers so this person then said maybe they were wrong about the single numbering system. At the time that put me off visiting website to improve my knowledge of these cars.

I believe it is possible that you are confusing the Web Site, ie. the Z Car Home Page where the "Registers" are maintained, with the e-mail based Z Car Discussion group, ie. the Z Car List.

Prior to registering HS30-00016 in March of 1997, In a response to my Annual Up-date to the "Z Car List", on tracking the 69 Production 240-Z's in Nov. of 1995 - you Posted the Following to the Z Car List.

= = = = =

From: "Lucas, Mike" mike.lucas@fernz.com

To: Z Car List z-car@taex001.tamu.edu

Date: Thu, Nov 20, 1995 12:55 PM

Subject: {z} Re: 240Z Production numbers

I am a little confused about the production number of the 240Z. I own a RHD

240Z #00016 yet I have been told by Carl Beck that there is a LHD 240Z

#00016 in the U.S.A

According to the original Z reference manual (a felloe Z member has) 1974

version. The production of Z were as follows

240Z 2 Seater Model HS30 (A) (U) (Q)

Oct 69-May 71 00003-00500

Jan 71-Aug 71 00501-01500 <- (I suspect Jan should read Jun?)

Sept 71-Jun 72 01501-14000

July 72-July 73 14001-101537

F.Y.I we also have the following car here in NZ

my car is the earliest at

HS30-00016='70 (according to NISSAN Japan I mailed their web site for the

info) engine L24-006777

HS30-00249='70 engine L24-?????? owner believes it was original an AUTO but

who can tell it had a V8 when he got it

HS30-00250='70 engine L24-??????

HS30-00251='70 engine L24-??????

HS30-01047='71 engine L24-?????? original Auto model.

HS30-01259='71 engine L24-054810

According to the production figures there was only 155,000 and something Z

made.

Yet I have been lead to believe that according U.S.A records there was

179000 and something.

This original parts reference manual (used to obtain the above production

numbers) only mentions HS30 (A) (U) (Q) not the HLS30

Can anyone confirm that LHD and RHD Z had different VIN #.

Mike Lucas

IZCC #594

240Z #00016, '77260Z

= = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Back in 95 - I responded that at one time we (Eric Sheeler/Stan Beckman/James Irvine et al, that had started the tracking effort to locate 69 production cars) thought that the Right and Left Hand 240Z's did share the same series numbers - but that we had dispelled that, as well as the fact that none of the 240-Z's sold in Australia had been 1969 production cars, as had been widely published there.

I don't know who on the Z Car List at the time would have told you your car was a fake - I can't find a Public Post in my archives to that effect. Possible it was sent directly to you - off list. (you didn't happen to keep it did you?).

Nonetheless, it would seem from your Post in 1995 that you were surprised to hear that the Right and Left hand 240Z's used individualy series numbers, and were asking the list for verification.

The last report we had from you was in 1999 - when you reported selling to to Peter Campbell in Au.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[NZeder]

Thanks for clearing that up and I recall I was asking the list to clear up the LHD and RHD number out as someone told me I could not possible have HS30-00016, I can't recall if it was via a website, email, list or the phone, or even a local zclub member who did not know about the multiply number scheme.

Peter still owns the car and I have not heard if he has started the restoration of the car.

While on the topic of early cars - last time I heard from Peter he said he had also located HS30-00013 or HS30-00015 in Australia (I can't recall if was 13 or 15) but he told me it was the sister car to 16 as they were same original colour.

HS30-00016 was one of the zed's I have owned that I did not take any photos of as I did not own a camera back then - did not own much infact that is why I sold the car to go toward the deposit on my first house.

No I didn't keep the email as I left that place of work in 98 so all my mail went with it. Never mind that was a long time ago anyway and we have all learnt a lot more about these cars since. Now that you mention it I would have lost the email I got from Japan about the production of HS30-00016 too

Cheers

Mike

Edited December 24, 2008 by NZeder

[FilipeA]

Hi Alan

Regarding your question about the Japanese letterring, here is what i found in my dashboard after i changed for a new one.

I don`t know what that means, and it`s right in red colour.

See pictures

[240260280z]

More info for this thread:

From Gab Ringuette, a club member who owned VIN48

Thought I'd join in. While restoring #48, I actually met an ex Nissan (Datsun) plant worker who moved to Canada years ago and was living in Victoria at the time. He was on the floor in the early seventies and confirmed the stories on how cars that were noted to have a defect would get pushed aside for rectification at a later date. There were no sophisticated tracking system in place to later find out what happened to a certain car either. The late sixties/early seventies were extremely hectic as he recalled and said the priority was getting cars out the door to the waiting masses in NA.

I believe mine was almost completely assembled when it was put aside for a few months as it has all the early features of a '69 car as well as a block number that puts it in line with the other cars produced in late Oct early Nov. Another club member from out West also had an anomaly model with VIN #300 and a production date of 02/70, go figure!

[240260280z]

Pre-production data from: 

https://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmizma-g.cocolog-nifty.com%2Fblog%2F2011%2F11%2Fs30zdatsun240z-.html&edit-text=&act=url

 

 

[240260280]

On 2003-06-23 at 5:20 AM, HS30-H said:

CB>

When you pull up to the gas pumps at your local petro station - do you like having to open the drivers door against the pump island and squeezing out between the car and pump island? (we have our gas filler on the right side of the car - where the gas pumps are - and we have plenty of room to get in and out of the car on the left. I suppose you could pull up with the pumps on the Left - but then you'd have to pull the gas hose across the car to reach the filler. I would think that if the car was designed as a RHD model - it would have been a better design to put the gas filler neck on the Left side of the car.

--------------------

AT>

Giggles. I'm just thinking of the Japanese pump hoses that retract into the air, and the lack of self-serve pumps. When I used to buy petrol in Japan I never used to get out of the car, and the attandants (SIC) used to bring the hose down from 'on high' - a really neat arrangement. I'm also thinking of the length of our hoses here in the UK ( don't go there! ). Despite being such a small little island, we still seem to manage to have enough space to park close enough to the pumps to get the hose in without stretching too much, and far away enough from the pump to open the door.

--------------------

Clarification: Gas station in Japan, Autumn 1969. "No hoses on high."

 

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by 240260280

[HS30-H]

13 hours ago, 240260280 said:

Clarification: Gas station in Japan, Autumn 1969. "No hoses on high."

 

 

So you find one example through a photo on the 'net, and this proves what exactly? As is so often the case, you turn up late to a discussion and apparently misunderstand the point(s) being made...   

On 17/08/2016 at 7:42 PM, Blue said:

Pre-production data from: 

https://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmizma-g.cocolog-nifty.com%2Fblog%2F2011%2F11%2Fs30zdatsun240z-.html&edit-text=&act=url

 

 

I think the 'translation' of the title of that graph says it all, really. The original 'Car Graphic' magazine title reads: "Shodai Fairlady Z (S30) design kaihatsu no ikisatsu"/"History of design development process of original Fairlady Z (S30)"] says it all, really. The 'translation' to 'Datsun 240Z' is plain old fashioned bowdlerisation. 

 

Hey Blue, if you're looking for ammunition, do me a favour and pop back up to post #102 in this thread and see if you can find anything that's *plain wrong*?