Let’s talk about gasoline

[Av8ferg]

I have no issue either with that, the Navy has tested biofuel in jets and it been successful but it’s tiny band aid not a solution.   The military can’t be a testing ground for Renewable energy, there to too much at stake.  Electric tanks or jets is not realistic   We have a wider energy problem and I dont feel like we have a coherent plan to bridge us to the future.   I can speak to electric cars because we own a Tesla.   It’s a great great car but it has some limitations and isn’t for everyone.   It perfect for the person that lives in the suburbs and commutes to work daily.  This isn’t the best car for a road trips.  I did a 400 mile round trip in my Tesla a few weeks ago.  What make Tesla the king is the charging stations and technology to ensure you get to where you are going without fear.  But its a bit inconvenient.  I don’t let my car go below 25% and don’t charge above 95% (that’s a whole different discussion). This reduces your usable mileage by 30% on a 350 mile battery.  That 350 is an estimate.  Use your AC or heat and it drops so you need to not push it too low, why 25% is my min.  Perfect car to commute 80 miles a day with out a doubt.  It take about 20 mins to charge it back to 90% from 25%.  Any other electric car brand is a disaster!  Elon gave all his patents up for free but the way the other manufacturers are structured he knows they can’t beat him.   Tesla made a massive investment in superchargers located all over the country.  GM, Ford…VW…not so much.  They opted to let the government build the network. That network is broken…Electrify America is a total disaster.   Last time I stopped at one every one was broken, with stranded EVs sitting by wondering how they were going to get home.   With Tesla you know exactly how many stalls are open and their status well before you drove there.   More to follow…..I gotta head out.  

[Zed Head]

Please don't let this turn in to a grievance thread.  I get a sick feeling in my gut when people start complaining about politics on a car forum.  Complaining about fuel quality because your unnecessary hobby car doesn't run the way that you want it to is like a train hobbyist complaining because he can't find coal for his antique engine.  Things change. 

The history of the internal combustion engine is a model for the development of electric cars.  Set standards, build stations, develop a supply system.  It took time, and there were problems along the way.  Expecting private enterprise to do that is unrealistic.  Besides that, private enterprise will do what is best for itself, not the greater society.  Dump their waste products in the rivers, bury them in the ground, whatever makes the most profit.

Think of the bigger picture.  If you want your old hobby car engine to run well on today's fuels, modernize the engine.

 

[Av8ferg]

Policies not politics is fine. I’m not married to neither party.
My concern is, I’m not sure the transition in it current form will be successful. Gas prices are extraordinary and hurting the people that are in the lowest income brackets disproportionately. These are the exact people that can’t afford and EV. They’re the screwed class! EVs are 50k min. You have to build the network before you force this transition. Government rarely does things efficiently or effectively. Government didn’t build the 1000’s of gas stations in the US. Private companies did. I’ve been involved in Government contracts…disaster is a understatement. It’s ripe for fraud and corruption. I don’t think the industry dumping waste into rivers is a valid argument? Private companies build car and it regulated and inspected by EPA, OSHA etc. That’s a better model. Incentivize private industry to build a network with strict standards like plug types.


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[dutchzcarguy]

If i convert it the fuel in the Netherlands is about 10 dollar a  american gallon..  And it has 5 or 10% ethanol..  I had to install a new injector TWICE already... is it that ethanol that breaks the injectors?? 

It looks like the ethanol is anything but a lubricant and the injectors get stuck and the windings get burned and then they fail... grrr...

I can't get any ethanol free fuel overhere..  unless i pay around 20 dollar a gallon..pfff... (4 euro/Ltr..)

[Av8ferg]

I doubt ethanol effects the injectors but I could be wrong.  All new car use injectors and don’t seem to be effected.  I guess it’s possible the older ones are different?   That video S30drover posted earlier showing how much water is absorbed by ethanol was pretty remarkable.  Do people in the Netherlands gas with Ethanol in all those boats?  In the US boaters use ethanol free gas for marine engines for good reason.  

[S30Driver]

Back in the day, when the 280z was sold, there was a recall for the injectors due to problems caused by the new ethanol fuel.   I don't remember the dates that recall was in effect.   

My take on the current industry situation, everyone wants a clean environment, clean air, but the push for green stuff is not ready for prime time yet. as Av8ferg has eluded to with his Tesla experience.  Maybe in ten or fifteen years technology will be ready, but until that time, you can't destroy the economic engine of this country which is the oil industry.  Common sense in my book.

I now return to regularly scheduled programming ...

 

[dutchzcarguy]

37 minutes ago, Av8ferg said:

 Do people in the Netherlands gas with Ethanol in all those boats?

I really don't know.. maybe i should ask / investigate..  There are a few marinas nearby.

[bartsscooterservice]

On 5/14/2022 at 8:31 PM, Zed Head said:

Please don't let this turn in to a grievance thread.  I get a sick feeling in my gut when people start complaining about politics on a car forum.  Complaining about fuel quality because your unnecessary hobby car doesn't run the way that you want it to is like a train hobbyist complaining because he can't find coal for his antique engine.  Things change. 

The history of the internal combustion engine is a model for the development of electric cars.  Set standards, build stations, develop a supply system.  It took time, and there were problems along the way.  Expecting private enterprise to do that is unrealistic.  Besides that, private enterprise will do what is best for itself, not the greater society.  Dump their waste products in the rivers, bury them in the ground, whatever makes the most profit.

Think of the bigger picture.  If you want your old hobby car engine to run well on today's fuels, modernize the engine.

 

🤮🤮 Ethanol is the biggest joke in history, got nothing to do with the environment, it's only killing it. Same with electric cars. You know the first electric cars are from the early 1900s ? 

[bartsscooterservice]

10 hours ago, dutchzcarguy said:

If i convert it the fuel in the Netherlands is about 10 dollar a  american gallon..  And it has 5 or 10% ethanol..  I had to install a new injector TWICE already... is it that ethanol that breaks the injectors?? 

It looks like the ethanol is anything but a lubricant and the injectors get stuck and the windings get burned and then they fail... grrr...

I can't get any ethanol free fuel overhere..  unless i pay around 20 dollar a gallon..pfff... (4 euro/Ltr..)

Germany Mart.....

[Zed Head]

Ethanol's original reason for being used in automobiles was to reduce dependence on petrochemicals.  In part to avoid the situation that exists with Russia and Saudi Arabia.  Once the industry is created it tends to become self-sustaining. 

  

[Zed Head]

Oil is fascinating stuff.  It's taken millions of years to be created but we're using it on the decades scale.

You can find a ton of articles out there trying to explain the use of ethanol.  But oil is just too easy.  

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/energy/biofuels/energy-briefs/history-of-ethanol-production-and-policy

 

[Av8ferg]

We have made a choice to be dependent on Russia and the Middle-East Oil and that dependency has left to untold deaths and war.
We have enough oil reserve in Alaska alone to provide for all our oil needs for over 100 years but we’ve made a choice not too. We can do It with environmental controls and strict adherence to rules and regulations. I love the outdoors…I love pristine forests but we can do this.
We not ready to transition today….we need at least a decade or more to do it safely and without destroying the middle class and the economy.


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