Need clutch disc, not kit

[Zed Head]

What transmission did you end up putting in the car?

 

[Jeff Berk]

I'm currently on my $25 four speed. I have a five speed in my shed but I'm not emotionally ready to tackle that right now.

[Zed Head]

If it only happens in 1st and 2nd but not 3rd or 4th then it seems likely to be a transmission issue.  The clutch operation is the same for all gears.  Any chance it's actually a vibration coming through the shift lever?  That's a common thing for 1st and 2nd.  Both on the left side of the pattern.

I wouldn't worry too much about it.  Keep track of it, if starts getting worse you can take action.

[Jeff Berk]

The problem developed a little while after installing the new clutch disk so hopefully its not the transmission, not after spending $25 on it!

Ill keep an eye on it and see if if anything changes.

Thanks for the input.

[Captain Obvious]

On 7/26/2022 at 7:03 PM, Jeff Berk said:

With the clutch disengaged, there is a slight grinding sound in 1st and 2nd gear. The sound goes away as soon as I let the clutch out or when in neutral, 3rd and 4th gear.

Maybe it's just semantics or wording, but what you have described really makes no sense. 

Let's start with a premise  -  "If the car is not moving, and the transmission is in a gear (any gear), then nothing inside the transmission is spinning."

With that in mind, when you are sitting still, there really isn't any difference in what's moving inside the transmission regardless of which gear you are in. Neutral is different, but all the gears (including reverse) should result in everything inside the tranny to be stationary.

Maybe the shift lever is buzzing on the worn bushings or against the tunnel somehow? Maybe the shift rods inside the tranny are buzzing vibrating when in first or second.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the issue (which is totally possible) then this cannot be a bearing issue inside the tranny case.

[Jeff Berk]

Could it be the throw out bearing  

 

? But then it should happen in all gears, right? For what its worth, here's a sound recording I made yesterday on a drive to try and reproduce the sound. It kind of sounds like a swarm of bees on the recording.

[Patcon]

If it is in neutral and the clutch isn't depressed then I believe the front portion of the input shaft is spinning

[Zed Head]

That does sound a like a spinny noise.  Too bad you spread your threads around I'm pretty sure I saw one about the pilot bushing.

How did the pilot bushing fit?  Did you put a dab of grease on it?  The noise kind of sounds like what I would imagine a dry and/or loose pilot bushing to sound like.  It has a certain wobble to it.

But throwout bearing seems possible too.  You didn't record third and fourth so I assume that they don't make the noise.

Or, maybe the needle bearings around 1 and 2.  1 and 2 also share the same coupling sleeve.  The guys that have rebuilt theirs would know more about that possibility.

[Zed Head]

I deviated from CO's point about nothing moving if the gears are engaged and the vehicle is not moving.  My post above doesn't really fit the "vehicle not moving" scenario.

 

[Zed Head]

So, if the vehicle is stopped, transmission in gear, clutch is slightly engaged (but vehicle is still not moving), what happens?  The pressure plate, disc, and flywheel are pressed together, the main shaft and the gear that is engaged are loaded with force but still not moving. 

The only parts that are spinning are the flywheel, pressure plate, and throwout bearing.  The disc is still static, rotationally, because it is splined to the mainshaft which is engaged with whatever gear is selected, but the disc is still subjected to the spinning flywheel.  According to your description in the sound bite the noise happens when the disc is slightly loaded.

One part that might buzz is the spring(s) in the disc.  What did you buy?  Maybe it's some sort of weird resonance that only happens in 1st and 2nd.  Are you sure you can't make it happen in 3rd, 4th, or R?

Edit - also, the disc could be rattling on the main shaft as the pressure plate spins against it. That might give a spinny buzzy noise. Loose splines.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Zed Head

[Zed Head]

p.s. it's not clear from your sound bite that the vehicle is completely stationary, like foot on the brake stopped.  Might be a clue.

Plus, it seemed like I heard some gear grind when you put it in gear.

Definitely an odd noise.  Everyone should listen to it.

[Jeff Berk]

I’m going to have to try a few more scenarios but I don’t think this problem occurs in 3^rd, 4^th, or reverse (4-speed). It doesn’t matter if the vehicle is at a complete stop or is coasting. As you can tell from the recording, the sound doesn’t always occur. I haven’t tried pressing the brake while doing this.

There was a little grinding getting into 1st gear.

I installed a pilot bushing about 5 years ago.

The problem didn’t start until after installing the new clutch disk so maybe I need to contact M-Pact (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6084348&pt=10605&jsn=4) and ask if this problem could be related to a resonance matching the springs.

The transmission has been in there maybe a year with no problem until the clutch disk failure, specifically, the cupping of the disk possibly due to improper installation. However, the car has not been driven much this past 1 ½ years due to bad luck with camshafts failing.

I’m somewhat limited in what I can do with the transmission right now. My ancient Hein-Werner floor jack that my transmission adapter is mounted on just failed and none of my other floor jacks fit the adapter.

One last thought… Did I install the clutch disk backwards? Please look at the attached photo.