R200 CLSD Whining...

[ollie]

I have an R200 clsd 3.70 which developed a whine over the winter, the car is rarely driven at all.  I ordered the "top shelf" bearing kit along with rear wheel bearings.  Had a local shop do the diff and it's still howling after all bearings, and comes on strong over 50 mph in 4th. Transmission is a close ratio 5 speed that was rebuilt by whitehead.  We had the chassis muffs on both the Transmission and diff and its for certain howling out of the diff.  It was removed and had the shims checked and reassembled and still whining.  The shop is saying ring and pinion, can't be anything else at this point. 

I've searched and read most threads I could find but I'm looking for suggestions here.  Not easy to find one of these diffs and if it is the ring and pinion any suggestions where I could find replacement gears? I'm so far down the rabbit hole on this I may as well not give up now!

Thanks everyone. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by ollie

[Racer X]

What does the gear wipe pattern look like on the ring and pinion? Can you post a picture of it?

[ollie]

That's a great question, it's still in the car at the shop.  I will see if they took any pics and will revert.  I am not keen to go any further without knowing more details and how thay wipe pattern looks will tell the story. 

I've had this diff for 8 years or so and its been totally fine with very few miles.  I was sure it was the transmission but it's the diff. Thanks!

[Racer X]

1 minute ago, ollie said:

That's a great question, it's still in the car at the shop.  I will see if they took any pics and will revert.  I am not keen to go any further without knowing more details and how thay wipe pattern looks will tell the story. 

I've had this diff for 8 years or so and its been totally fine with very few miles.  I was sure it was the transmission but it's the diff. Thanks!

You’re welcome.

You mentioned having new bearings installed in the diff, and the shims were rechecked,  but didn’t mention the pattern. I’ve rebuilt a few dozen differentials over the years, mostly for medium and heavy trucks, and a few automotive units. Setting the gear lash and checking it with the lead paste is a fading art. Get it wrong and the gears will sing.

Let us know what you find out, eh?

 

 

 

 

[ollie]

4 minutes ago, Racer X said:

You’re welcome.

You mentioned having new bearings installed in the diff, and the shims were rechecked,  but didn’t mention the pattern. I’ve rebuilt a few dozen differentials over the years, mostly for medium and heavy trucks, and a few automotive units. Setting the gear lash and checking it with the lead paste is a fading art. Get it wrong and the gears will sing.

Let us know what you find out, eh?

 

 

 

 

You bet.  For this one, I'm at arms reach to the shop. The shop in fact sub'd it out for the second set up to "get it done right" but I have to say I'm flying blind. 

Thanks again, hope to revert back with some pics of the wipe pattern early next week. Cheers!

[ollie]

I spoke to the shop and they had multi channel ears hooked to the transmission and the diff at the same time.  It is definitely coming out of the diff, on throttle but off throttle the noise is gone.  The car has new joints and new rear wheel bearings.  I'm not sure a driveshaft issue could cause this whine and transfer that to the diff but after two different sets of eyes on it, I am not sure where to go from there.  No pics have been taken of the wipe pattern but I am going to swap my old R180 in and see hat happens.  Then I will have the R200 in my hands and can take some pics once I open it up.  

This whine came on over the winter when the car was just in storage in a heated garage and I have never abused this diff.  If I am faced with replacing the ring and pinion, what options are out there?  Not easy to find any other diffs for sale, and it seems like way overkill to go down the OS Gikken rabbit hole.  Bummer as the 3.70 matches really well with that 83 5 speed, so I am open to suggestions!  I'm in Vancouver, BC and could ship the diff to a provider...I reached out to Whitehead who also sold me the 5 speed but no reply.  Thanks!!

[Racer X]

16 hours ago, ollie said:

I spoke to the shop and they had multi channel ears hooked to the transmission and the diff at the same time.  It is definitely coming out of the diff, on throttle but off throttle the noise is gone.  The car has new joints and new rear wheel bearings.  I'm not sure a driveshaft issue could cause this whine and transfer that to the diff but after two different sets of eyes on it, I am not sure where to go from there.  No pics have been taken of the wipe pattern but I am going to swap my old R180 in and see hat happens.  Then I will have the R200 in my hands and can take some pics once I open it up.  

This whine came on over the winter when the car was just in storage in a heated garage and I have never abused this diff.  If I am faced with replacing the ring and pinion, what options are out there?  Not easy to find any other diffs for sale, and it seems like way overkill to go down the OS Gikken rabbit hole.  Bummer as the 3.70 matches really well with that 83 5 speed, so I am open to suggestions!  I'm in Vancouver, BC and could ship the diff to a provider...I reached out to Whitehead who also sold me the 5 speed but no reply.  Thanks!!

So the noise on acceleration but not on coast is a symptom of incorrect pinion to ring gear engagement, or possibly (only possibly, a close examination of the bearings would confirm or eliminate the bearings) the bearings. Checking the wipe pattern will go a long way toward finding the cause.

Find a local shop that specializes in differential work. There are a number of competent shops in the greater Vancouver area. Shipping a differential will be expensive, because of the weight.

 

[Daluvian]

I may have the gears if your interested. I rebuild diffs prolly easily over 250 regears mostly Toyota. Do you have any pictures of the gears? a picture of the pattern of the gears would help diffs are simple but have to be done carefully and correct not alot of good diff builders left

[ollie]

That's great to hear, things slowed over last week but I am picking the car up tomorrow and should have pics of the wipe pattern towards then end of the week.  Will circle back for sure....gears are stock ration 3.70 currently.  Thanks!

On 9/5/2022 at 7:30 PM, Daluvian said:

I may have the gears if your interested. I rebuild diffs prolly easily over 250 regears mostly Toyota. Do you have any pictures of the gears? a picture of the pattern of the gears would help diffs are simple but have to be done carefully and correct not alot of good diff builders left

 

[ollie]

On 8/31/2022 at 6:37 AM, Racer X said:

So the noise on acceleration but not on coast is a symptom of incorrect pinion to ring gear engagement, or possibly (only possibly, a close examination of the bearings would confirm or eliminate the bearings) the bearings. Checking the wipe pattern will go a long way toward finding the cause.

Find a local shop that specializes in differential work. There are a number of competent shops in the greater Vancouver area. Shipping a differential will be expensive, because of the weight.

 

IWE passed on it, so if you know of any others I'm keen to hear.  Thanks.

[Zed Head]

On 8/30/2022 at 1:58 PM, ollie said:

This whine came on over the winter when the car was just in storage in a heated garage and I have never abused this diff.

Any chance that the noise is actually from a failed differential or mustache bar mount/bushing?  The diffs are inherently noisy.  If you have any spare differentials you could swap one in and see if there's a change.  Or take a hard look at the mounting areas.

On deceleration the diff nose is pushed down.  And the metal edge of the diff mount is very close to the crossmember.  It's easy to imagine that the edge of the mount contacts the crossmember on deceleration.

Borrowed a picture from somebody's web site.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Zed Head

[ollie]

I have my old R180 that I plan to swap out.  I would be surprised if there's any other axel related issues but it is possible.  Absolutely everything was replaced when the car was restored, and it is stored in a heated garage and rarely driven.  I plan on going over it inside out and backwards when I get it home, and I am also going to throw on a different set of tires.  The whine is more of a howl, and it is weird how it came on.  I had a leaky tailshaft bushing in the transmission that I fixed and thought it was a bearing in the transmission but its totally fine.  I am familiar with the diff sounds our cars can make, but this is way beyond that.  Thanks!!